Electrify Your Vintage Car

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by hoffman900 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:58 pm

statsystems wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:14 pm
hoffman900 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:23 am
kimosabi wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:14 am
The hype is just a hype, the problem is batteries. Li-Ion batteries just are not efficient enough to compete with the most efficient gas or diesel engined cars. All seen in a total user demand package. We'll have to wait for the Graphene batteries to be developed to see a real challenge.

Just because governments give electric cars all the benefits, hell they even throw trucckloads of money at Tesla, doesn't mean they are better.

What if I told you a diesel engine exhaust can be converted to water vapor and nitrogen?
They don’t give electric cars all the benefits. Governments (not just the US) are subsidizing oil production, which effects what you pay at the pump.

Sorry guys, but governments are subsidizing all of this (coal, oil, electrically operated vehicles, etc), whether you like (or want to acknowledge it to fit a narrative) or not.

I do particularly enjoy the poster on here who says he will have his car crushed when he dies to stop this from happening. That’s the most crumdgeon post I’ve ever seen here, and that’s saying a lot seeing how there are so many. :roll: :lol:


What bullcrap. The government is subsidizing everything not oil related to death. And all of it is worthless. I laughed at the 65 year old moron who in 1981 said by the year 2000 we'd all be driving electric cars and have solar and wind powered homes.

If he was still alive I got punk slap him for being a fool.

Call me crumdgeon all you want. At least post some facts. I choose not to drive junk. Why not resist the steam engine? Or a half dozen of the other ideas that have failed in the last 100 years?

Face it...peak oil is a lie. We are not out of oil. Burning oil and oil based products has zero effect on climate.

What a rediculous discussion. This should be covered on some left wing, snowflake, scared of their own shadow website.
Okay, Captain Bluster. :roll: You're the only one 'triggered' here, going so far to threaten to crush your car when you die and that you're glad you'll "be dead soon". A simple 'meh' would have sufficed. :lol: I enjoy seeing your upbeat, positive attitude, and open mindedness are shared in other topics here too. [-X

I think it's a cool idea. It's not going to happen en-masse.

This is exactly what I would be interested in:
Image
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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by exhaustgases » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:28 pm

It will be a lot simpler to extract power from magnet devices than from any sort of fuel burning prime mover, the day is coming if you want good old engine noise you will need a large card in the spoked wheels or a good sound system to make it.

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by Schurkey » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:33 pm

...or a real TESLA (not an Elon Musk Tesla) energy-from-the-ether device.

Ol' NIcola had it figured out. No-one else has, though.

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by statsystems » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:33 pm

No trigger to it. Just not into ignorant leftist junk. If you don't get that, it's on you. The majority of the posts on here show the OP's topic is at best misplaced and IMO, just plain rediculous.

Ever been to an electric car drag race? I have. I wouldn't associate with those people anywhere, let alone a drag race. Just not my type.

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by MadBill » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:37 pm

"It will be a lot simpler to extract power from magnet devices than from any sort of fuel burning prime mover, the day is coming if you want good old engine noise you will need a large card in the spoked wheels or a good sound system to make it."

Or as I have suggested previously, go with this: http://www.soundracer.se/?p=98&p2=539
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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by GARY C » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:52 pm

We always have this cool thought to look forward to... Well my nephew would if I stick with the lyrics.
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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by Cougar5.0 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:41 pm

hoffman900 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:58 pm
statsystems wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:14 pm
hoffman900 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:23 am


They don’t give electric cars all the benefits. Governments (not just the US) are subsidizing oil production, which effects what you pay at the pump.

Sorry guys, but governments are subsidizing all of this (coal, oil, electrically operated vehicles, etc), whether you like (or want to acknowledge it to fit a narrative) or not.

I do particularly enjoy the poster on here who says he will have his car crushed when he dies to stop this from happening. That’s the most crumdgeon post I’ve ever seen here, and that’s saying a lot seeing how there are so many. :roll: :lol:


What bullcrap. The government is subsidizing everything not oil related to death. And all of it is worthless. I laughed at the 65 year old moron who in 1981 said by the year 2000 we'd all be driving electric cars and have solar and wind powered homes.

If he was still alive I got punk slap him for being a fool.

Call me crumdgeon all you want. At least post some facts. I choose not to drive junk. Why not resist the steam engine? Or a half dozen of the other ideas that have failed in the last 100 years?

Face it...peak oil is a lie. We are not out of oil. Burning oil and oil based products has zero effect on climate.

What a rediculous discussion. This should be covered on some left wing, snowflake, scared of their own shadow website.
Okay, Captain Bluster. :roll: You're the only one 'triggered' here, going so far to threaten to crush your car when you die and that you're glad you'll "be dead soon". A simple 'meh' would have sufficed. :lol: I enjoy seeing your upbeat, positive attitude, and open mindedness are shared in other topics here too. [-X

I think it's a cool idea. It's not going to happen en-masse.

This is exactly what I would be interested in:
Image


:lol: =D> Indeed the future is not for the thin-skinned.

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by Circlotron » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:09 pm

Imagine how dull the EMC would be with just lots of electric motors and batteries... #-o

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by Dave Koehler » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:25 pm

We will likely have to wait for DeWalt to come out with a battery powered beater for the masses.
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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by nitro2 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:03 pm

My kids had a starter 4 wheeler. The engine was put together by the dealer and they made a couple mistakes. Long story short eventually their mistakes caused engine damage to an already mediocre design so realistically it couldn't be fixed. There were no replacement engines because by that time they had moved to electric (they were caught up in a lawsuit over their engines).

The electric setup they had could have been fitted to the 4 wheeler easily. Parked it, went out and bought a Banshee with aftermarket pipes and blah blah blah. First thing I did was replace the baffles in the mufflers with straight tubes. Lots of other stuff after that. It's LOUD and ENTERTAINING for everyone (even the neighbors). No electric happening here, ever, unless the powers that be force it upon the masses. Same idea for cars.

It's not just about performance, ask any Harley owner. :lol:

Now an electric riding mower, that'd be different, because my riding mower is not entertaining in any way. Though on YouTube I see some people's are entertaining. :lol:
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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by dirtracr5 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:19 pm

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 am
Frankshaft wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:54 pm
Why would you even ask that question? To be a smart ass? Seriously. You should be banned from this site for that question. This isn't an electric motor site.
Having seen the Tesla roadster demonstration on Thursday, piston-power just looks different to me me now.

I prefer whatever works best.

I don't get what is so upsetting about electric power for the motor/engine.
Ive driven a couple of electric cars/suvs. The power is really good. Instant torque that never lets up.

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by pcnsd » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:32 pm

Well.. It seems to me like many are whistling past the grave yard here. Electric vehicles are coming. It will not be the end of the world. It is a new beginning. The combined cycle power plant is simply more efficient than a straight IC motor and the increasing level of atmospheric CO2 will drive the demise of most point of use IC motors in the future. Like many of us, I will be dead by then, but that will not mean the end of racing or the mind to drive improvement in the pursuit of speed, only that it will change. If I could field a competitive electric race bike today for less than the cost of the one I ride, I would hop on that bad boy no problem. After all, I want to win. The future is coming and can not be stopped and more importantly, it is OK.

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by nitro2 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:26 pm

pcnsd wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:32 pm
Well.. It seems to me like many are whistling past the grave yard here. Electric vehicles are coming. It will not be the end of the world. It is a new beginning. The combined cycle power plant is simply more efficient than a straight IC motor and the increasing level of atmospheric CO2 will drive the demise of most point of use IC motors in the future. Like many of us, I will be dead by then, but that will not mean the end of racing or the mind to drive improvement in the pursuit of speed, only that it will change. If I could field a competitive electric race bike today for less than the cost of the one I ride, I would hop on that bad boy no problem. After all, I want to win. The future is coming and can not be stopped and more importantly, it is OK.
Well some people (myself included) love engines, period, and new technologies with higher efficiencies whether it be electric or even someday nuclear, does not interest them in the least. People that love vehicles more than engines may be interested in it, and people that have no interest in cars whatsoever will be onboard for sure.
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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by GARY C » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:17 am

pcnsd wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:32 pm
Well.. It seems to me like many are whistling past the grave yard here. Electric vehicles are coming. It will not be the end of the world. It is a new beginning. The combined cycle power plant is simply more efficient than a straight IC motor and the increasing level of atmospheric CO2 will drive the demise of most point of use IC motors in the future. Like many of us, I will be dead by then, but that will not mean the end of racing or the mind to drive improvement in the pursuit of speed, only that it will change. If I could field a competitive electric race bike today for less than the cost of the one I ride, I would hop on that bad boy no problem. After all, I want to win. The future is coming and can not be stopped and more importantly, it is OK.
That has been the headlines from the 1800's to the present but so far it never pans out, although now that all the big oil company's are the main pushers of green energy movement maybe this time it will be different but then again you need a big enough market and customer base and to date most people need fuel powered vehicles with the ability to fuel on the go anywhere they go.

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Re: Electrify Your Vintage Car

Post by Ratu » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:19 am

This is an interesting question. I note that the OP put it in the Politics/Religion/Current Events section. He's dead right to have selected this forum. More on the political and social aspect of this matter another time.

Quick point for a previous contributor: If the oil companies are getting back money extracted from them by way of taxation, that is not a subsidy. It is a recovery. And that is fair enough. One notes that in the USA a car owner is not paid to purchase a gasoline car, although he would be paid thousands of dollars were he to purchase an electric powered one. It would appear to be the same deal in parts of Europe as well. That is a subsidy. It is a surprising fact that wealthy people are being subsidised by those of far more modest means to purchase what amounts to a toy- a discretionary toy (the third car in the household garage!).

The OP asked whether anyone would convert an old car to electric since electric drive can accelerate quite effectively. It is a valid question. So, would I consider doing it? Yes! Why not? Sure, I'd not use a car which was a highly regarded or sought out classic for the job though. I think it would be best to choose a car which would otherwise be on the one-way trip to decrepitude, parting out and ultimately the crusher. In that instance one is saving the car and that is completely acceptable- far preferable to the alternative.

In regards to electric cars, there are several issue to mention. If the electric car's outstanding acceleration were to be utilised it must always be understood that comes at a heavy price, the range (and to a lesser extent battery-pack life - so I would not be using it as a race car, even for weekends). A few of those impressive 0-100 mph blasts and the range collapses dramatically. In many instances the range becomes unacceptably short. Same deal for top speed runs. Hit any sort of decent speed (worse, do it up-hill or on a cold day) or try to sustain it and the range just falls to pieces. This issue limits the electric car to short, known, pre-planned trips (like say, around an urban or sub-urban conurbation). So, in the case of the electric car, frequent (repetitive) use of accelerative performance during an excursion means that range performance is decimated.

Second point, use of air-conditioning and cabin heating to the extent one uses them on hot or cold days also has a wildly disproportionate effect on range.

Third point, the electric car has poor utility. It takes an extended period of time to properly recharge. Recharging is a task which MUST be attended to properly and without fail. It is not a matter of forgetting to do it and then running off to the gas station for a 3 or 4 minute top up. You MUST care for your batteries and attend to their requirements carefully. You need to be doing this task every single day. It is an added chore which has to be attended to. Failing to do it WILL leave you stranded and worse, lead to battery pack damage.

Forth, cold days provide dense air. Dense air increases drag force. This reduces electric car range. Beware weather. It has much more of an effect on the car than you'd imagine.

Fifth, if it is a near silent transport experience one seeks, then an old luxury car such as a Jaguar XJ12 S2, A Rolls Royce of similar vintage, certain body on frame US sedans (and personal luxury coupes) will easily provide that experience. The advantage they have is range, cheapness and low cost of ownership. The disadvantage is that they are old and definitely not trendy or techy.

Sixth, electric cars with their high voltages and high currents are definitely in a class of their own when it comes to safety. There are unconventional dangers present which do demand a respect all of their own. For example, there is high voltage DC… many hundreds of volts of it! This is no joke. Indeed, for a person to maintain or work on high tension electrical equipment requires special registration and qualification on most parts of the world. Beware working on one of these cars yourself for any purpose! You can’t see what is live and dangerous. Electricity does leak and it sure likes to seek a path to ground. You do not want to be anywhere on or near that path. You sure better know what you are doing. Then there is the issue of electromagnetic fields and your health. Lots of unknowns about this. What can be stated is that there is a whole lot of electromagnetic activity present in an electric car and the passengers are right there in the middle of all the action! Good or bad? You can be the judge!

Seventh, lithium batteries are exceptionally dangerous should anything go wrong with them. For example, while not ideal, petrol or diesel in a conventional car can leak and come into direct contact with water and oxygen without consequence. On the other hand, lithium begins an exothermic reaction immediately on contact with oxygen. It likes reacting with water also. If this reaction gets going the consequence is a very aggressive fire, near impossible to extinguish and potentially explosive. Not good. Thermal runaway is something else lithium batteries (as well as some other types) are known for. The runaway inevitably results in fire. It can come as the result of mechanical damage to the battery (for instance in a car accident) or as a total surprise for the owner, lacking apparent cause. Boo!

Eighth, in the aftermath of a crash it is difficult to know whether the body of the car has become live or not. While there are systems which are intended to isolate the batteries in the event of a crash, there are no guarantees they have not been defeated as a consequence of the crash. Good luck!

OK. That’s some of the vexatious issues and drawbacks mentioned. Having said that, let’s consider the range issue for the moment. It would appear that there are two means to ameliorate it. Why not reduce the size of the problematic (and very expensive) battery bank to the minimum needed for strong dynamic performance and add a modest engine + generator set? Build the car as a series hybrid. The engine could be located inside a soundproof enclosure and be silent (rather like the diesel generators present on yachts and those on building sites). Such a car would provide the experience of electric drive without the range issues of a pure electric. Also, in this case one could use lead-carbon batteries instead of the lithium type. These provide far superior battery life-span as well as much greater safety at far less expense. The weight margin of lead carbon over lithium cells would not be such an issue since the battery pack would be significantly reduced in capacity anyway- there just would not be the need to store ALL the energy in the battery pack. Refuelling would be a few minute affair which would occur once a fortnight or at even longer intervals- hence a far higher utility than a pure electric.

So, in answer to the original question, yes, I’d consider it warts and all. Could be interesting. Definately fun stuff.

Ratu


P.S. take a look at the Rimac Concept One. Great performance, reasonable range, expensive, pretty, huge roadholding, sound handling, fun to drive, catches fire when rolled! All in all a most interesting vehicle with a fascinating back-story! Recommendation to everyone, find out more about it.

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