The Science of Disinformation

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GARY C
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:09 am

paulzig wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:43 am
GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:25 am
paulzig wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:10 am


Yes, you wanted rebuttals didnt you? Critique of intelligent design?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc ...

Heres one on evolution, fully referenced down the bottom of each page with potential for falsification included.

You have time to read creationist stuff, so why dont you take some time out and educate yourself on evolution without the attitude that it cant be right because bible says
Yes I was just reading through scroll to the bottom and look at the age of the info.
So far what I have read I have already read or is included teaching by most ID teachers, that is one difference I have seen and respect with a lot of the ID/Creation teaching I have seen is that they teach you what is taught and what the issue is from actual experiments as well as the references to go and study it for your self.
How do you do experiments for intelligent design? How do you potentially falsify intelligent design? I have seen the reference list and the age of some of the papers, yes this is not a problem the information stands the test of time. I have studied evolution and I have come to the conclusion that its a fact.

You didnt answer last time, do we have a clue who this creator is? Is it the christan god as described in the bible or some other god? I wonder who created this god.
I think you know, I am just amazed that you guys will accept miracles as science.

You may not have a clue but apparently others do.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:47 am

GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:09 am

I think you know, I am just amazed that you guys will accept miracles as science.

You may not have a clue but apparently others do.
You are the one with an intelligent designer who performs miracles.

You still wont answer who this designer is though, or dont you have a clue? Do you think its the christian god, allah, odin, some eastern god or gods which one is the likely candidate?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:08 am

paulzig wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:47 am
GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:09 am

I think you know, I am just amazed that you guys will accept miracles as science.

You may not have a clue but apparently others do.
You are the one with an intelligent designer who performs miracles.

You still wont answer who this designer is though, or dont you have a clue? Do you think its the christian god, allah, odin, some eastern god or gods which one is the likely candidate?
Still trying to move the goal post, I am still waiting for you to show me an actual example of life from non life.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:23 am

Keep this in mind next time you think peer review means anything these days, this was accepted!.
Is Your Peenis Responsible For Global Warming?
http://www.returnofkings.com/123012/is- ... al-warming

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:08 pm

GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:08 am


Still trying to move the goal post, I am still waiting for you to show me an actual example of life from non life.
As as I told you abiogenesis is a hypothesis, if you know what that means, miller-urey experiment shows the mechanisms they used but the conditions at the time are unknown so we dont know I am giving you a non-supernatural possibility for how life came about from non-life, and like I said evolution concerns itself with the evolution of life not how life came about.

Moving the goalposts? I have asked you repeatedly who this creator is and you've dodged the question each time Gary and no surprise here we go again. You just carry on, asking for all this evidence even when you are shown things like the fossil record, the bacterial experiment etc you still scoff and rant like a child.

I'll ask you one last time who is this creator?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:11 pm

GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:08 am
I am still waiting for you to show me an actual example of life from non life.
I am still waiting for an answer to who this creator is, and 1 example of how he created anything what method? magic?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:50 pm

paulzig wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:08 pm
GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:08 am


Still trying to move the goal post, I am still waiting for you to show me an actual example of life from non life.
As as I told you abiogenesis is a hypothesis, if you know what that means, miller-urey experiment shows the mechanisms they used but the conditions at the time are unknown so we dont know I am giving you a non-supernatural possibility for how life came about from non-life, and like I said evolution concerns itself with the evolution of life not how life came about.

Moving the goalposts? I have asked you repeatedly who this creator is and you've dodged the question each time Gary and no surprise here we go again. You just carry on, asking for all this evidence even when you are shown things like the fossil record, the bacterial experiment etc you still scoff and rant like a child.

I'll ask you one last time who is this creator?
Why is the proof you guys always show are failed experiments from a long long time ago! It only shows that it doesn't work and 60 years later DNA studies show it's even worse now.

It is sad what science has come to...At least it's brought us like 47 different genders on a planet that is going to melt be 2020 or some BS.

For those who don't know.
Abiogenesis is the theory that under the proper conditions life can arise spontaneously from non-living molecules. One of the most widely cited studies used to support this conclusion is the famous Miller–Urey experiment. Surveys of textbooks find that the Miller–Urey study is the major (or only) research cited to prove abiogenesis. Although widely heralded for decades by the popular press as ‘proving’ that life originated on the early earth entirely under natural conditions, we now realize the experiment actually provided compelling evidence for the opposite conclusion. It is now recognized that this set of experiments has done more to show that abiogenesis on Earth is not possible than to indicate how it could be possible. This paper reviews some of the many problems with this research, which attempted to demonstrate a feasible method of abiogenesis on the early earth.
https://creation.com/why-the-miller-ure ... biogenesis

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:18 am

Miller-Urey is a hypothesis not a theory, it shows a possible mechanism whereby life could have come from non-life given favourable conditions. Hence scientists mention it as a hypothesis not a scientific theory.

Like I explained to you before, it has no bearing on the validity of the scientific theory of evolution at all because it does NOT seek to answer that question, but you asked the question how could life arise from non life and I brought this to your attention as one of the hypotheses.

Talk about shifting goal posts, you wont focus on evolution but you want to go to abiogenesis? Do you want to go to cosmology and mention the big bang too, and somehow attach that to evolution? How about philosophical/ontological arguments asking questions like 'why does the universe exist, whats the reason for it', when you know very well that evolution doesnt even seek to answer those questions.

I know you like videos, and I have found one with Kent Hovind VS Bill Ludlow which deals with evidence for human evolution, there are questions addressed within it that are similar to yours so if this is of interest to you I suggest you take a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tul_F9sY-Rk

Another one that is more along the line of cosmology/physics here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCSqUBwWYhg&t=3229s

I watched both of these a while back and found them both interesting, 2nd one is the best one...

...and its 71 genders, get with the program.. That gender identity crap would probably be the only thing we agree on LOL

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:27 am

The Urey-Miller stuff is still being worked on if you have an interest in it:

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/ar ... -variation

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 10837/full

joe 90
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by joe 90 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:01 am

paulzig wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:11 pm


I am still waiting for an answer to who this creator is, and 1 example of how he created anything what method? magic?
Who created the creator?
Was it just a miracle ?

No, magic.

Abra cadabra and there it was......


I really don't know how anyone can be so stooooopid as to believe it.
But then again, the world is full of stooooopid people.

GARY C
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:58 am

joe 90 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:01 am
paulzig wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:11 pm


I am still waiting for an answer to who this creator is, and 1 example of how he created anything what method? magic?
Who created the creator?
Was it just a miracle ?

No, magic.

Abra cadabra and there it was......


I really don't know how anyone can be so stooooopid as to believe it.
But then again, the world is full of stooooopid people.
As your posts demonstrate.

GARY C
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:16 am

paulzig wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:27 am
The Urey-Miller stuff is still being worked on if you have an interest in it:

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/ar ... -variation

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 10837/full
Actually it's the same story twice basicly and apart from all thats missing I did like these parts.
Abstract

We designed and conducted a series of primordial-soup Miller-Urey style experiments with deuterated gases and reagents to compare the spark-discharge products of a “deuterated world” with the standard reaction in the “hydrogenated world”. While the deuteration of the system has little effect on the distribution of amino acid products, significant differences are seen in other regions of the product-space. Not only do we observe about 120 new species, we also see significant differences in their distribution if the two hydrogen isotope worlds are compared. Several isotopologue matches can be identified in both, but a large proportion of products have no equivalent in the corresponding isotope world with ca. 43 new species in the D world and ca. 39 new species in the H world. This shows that isotopic exchange (the addition of only one neutron) may lead to significant additional complexity in chemical space under otherwise identical reaction conditions.
They did prove that it takes a Intelligent designer to set up a lab experiment but calling things species don't make them so.
The other overlooked part here in the lab you can "design" an un contaminated test in the real world you can't also the beaker provides a membrane for the test to take place but that it's self would have to evolve to contain the cell in the real world.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:32 am

paulzig wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:18 am
Miller-Urey is a hypothesis not a theory, it shows a possible mechanism whereby life could have come from non-life given favourable conditions. Hence scientists mention it as a hypothesis not a scientific theory.

Like I explained to you before, it has no bearing on the validity of the scientific theory of evolution at all because it does NOT seek to answer that question, but you asked the question how could life arise from non life and I brought this to your attention as one of the hypotheses.

Talk about shifting goal posts, you wont focus on evolution but you want to go to abiogenesis? Do you want to go to cosmology and mention the big bang too, and somehow attach that to evolution? How about philosophical/ontological arguments asking questions like 'why does the universe exist, whats the reason for it', when you know very well that evolution doesnt even seek to answer those questions.

I know you like videos, and I have found one with Kent Hovind VS Bill Ludlow which deals with evidence for human evolution, there are questions addressed within it that are similar to yours so if this is of interest to you I suggest you take a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tul_F9sY-Rk

Another one that is more along the line of cosmology/physics here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCSqUBwWYhg&t=3229s

I watched both of these a while back and found them both interesting, 2nd one is the best one...

...and its 71 genders, get with the program.. That gender identity crap would probably be the only thing we agree on LOL
You brought that up twice! Not me!

I would not recommend Kent beyond basics and showing the history of the frauds in the text book.

Cosmos from a Physicist!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMU3-R6_VuY
Radiometric Dating, Accelerated Decay from a Geologist!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWBqj9yGfg

joe 90
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by joe 90 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:34 am

GARY C wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:58 am
joe 90 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:01 am
paulzig wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:11 pm


I am still waiting for an answer to who this creator is, and 1 example of how he created anything what method? magic?
Who created the creator?
Was it just a miracle ?

No, magic.

Abra cadabra and there it was......


I really don't know how anyone can be so stooooopid as to believe it.
But then again, the world is full of stooooopid people.
As your posts demonstrate.
It's because the answer is too hard for you to answer........it's not in your book.
GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:39 pm

Some things bonding and all of the things bonding to create what is needed is a scientific proven impossibility as was covered in the last vid.

Where did that info come from?
What you just did there was take "things can bond" to "everything is already there", I agree everything is already there and has to be and it requires creation for that to happen!
But where did the creator come from?
The answer to one question is the same or equivalent as the answer to the other question.


As far as radiocarbon dating goes, every isotope has a half life.

Decay isn't just random, decay is triggered (trigger energy) by external factors.....like cosmic rays.
Nothing in the universe is constant, everything is under constant change so it would be silly to assume that half lives have always been and always will be exactly the same.
Last edited by joe 90 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

GARY C
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:54 am

joe 90 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:34 am
GARY C wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:58 am
joe 90 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:01 am


Who created the creator?
Was it just a miracle ?

No, magic.

Abra cadabra and there it was......


I really don't know how anyone can be so stooooopid as to believe it.
But then again, the world is full of stooooopid people.
As your posts demonstrate.
It's because the answer is too hard for you to answer........it's not in your book.


As far as radiocarbon dating goes, every isotope has a half life.

Decay isn't just random, decay is triggered (trigger energy) by external factors.....like cosmic rays.
Nothing in the universe is constant, everything is under constant change so it would be silly to assume that half lives have always been and always will be exactly the same.
Your point has nothing to do with what the video shows?

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