The Science of Disinformation

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joe 90
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by joe 90 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:54 am

Sometimes I feel sorry for those who are stuck in the past and going nowhere.


We're still coming out of the last ice age.
Which reminds me of a documentary on TV a while back about Alexander the great.
The Caspian sea and the Aral sea.
There's a river or rivers flowing into them originating in glaciers in Afganistan.
In the times of the old testement it was fertile land, lots more water, many now ruined and lost cities.
Very little water due to the change in climate over the last 5000 or so years.


They must have all been really bad sinners?
Nothing there now but desert.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:16 am

joe 90 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:54 am
Sometimes I feel sorry for those who are stuck in the past and going nowhere.


We're still coming out of the last ice age.
Which reminds me of a documentary on TV a while back about Alexander the great.
The Caspian sea and the Aral sea.
There's a river or rivers flowing into them originating in glaciers in Afganistan.
In the times of the old testement it was fertile land, lots more water, many now ruined and lost cities.
Very little water due to the change in climate over the last 5000 or so years.


They must have all been really bad sinners?
Nothing there now but desert.
Yes, I remember the 80's.
The TV is a really good place to get your historical info.
Yes we are, you should see what it's going to look like!

The one that gets me is that people still think the Constitution and Bill of Rights was an actual document and the signitures were real people... Come on really! Like anyone would believe that hundreds of years later.
Those are obviously mythical people taken from the millions of years of wind and erosion on Mt Rushmore that now looks like peoples faces.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by joe 90 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:40 am

Are you off your medications?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by David Redszus » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:59 pm

Since Gary was kind enough to bestow upon us the wisdom of the ages regarding religion (specifically
Christianity), following is a small collection of the thoughts of others during the early ages of Jesus and
the christian church (created by St Paul).

Anaxagoras (500-428 BCE)
Everything has a natural explanation. The moon is not a god but a great rock and the sun a hot rock.

Anaximander (610-546 BCE)
Living creatures rose from the moist element as it was evaporated by the sun. Man was like another
animal, namely a fish, in the beginning.

Aristophanes (448-385 BCE)
Shrines! Shrines! Surely you don’t believe in the gods. What’s your argument? Where’s your proof?

Aristotle 384-322 BCE)
Men create gods after their own image, not only with regard to their form, but with regard
to their mode of life.

St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD)
Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens…about the motions and
orbits of the stars…and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience.
It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about
such things claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture.

Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
If I had believed in a God of rewards and punishments, I might have lost courage in battle.

God fights on the side with the best artillery.

My firm conviction is that Jesus was put to death like any other fanatic who professed to
be a prophet or a messiah; there have been such persons at all times…Besides, how could I
accept a religion which would damn Socrates and Plato?

Buddha (623-543 BCE)
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it or it has been handed down for
many generations or because it is found written in your religious books or merely on the
authority of your teachers and elders.

Jesus Christ (4 BC-33 AD)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace,
but a sword. Matt 10:34

King David (1011-971 BCE)
For I have done your bidding. I have slain mine enemies in your name. I have put women
and children to death in your honor. I have caused great pain among them, for your glory.

Democritus (460-370 BCE)
Nothing exists except atoms and empty space. Everything else is opinion.

Diogenes (412-323 BCE)
When I look upon seamen, men of science, and philosophers, man is the wisest of all beings.
When I look upon priests and prophets…nothing is so contemptible as man.

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
It was a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically
repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.

Euripides (480-406 BCE)
Do we, holding that the gods exist, deceive ourselves with insubstantial dreams and lies,
while random careless chance and chance alone control the world?

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man…perverted into an
engine for enslaving mankind…a mere contrivance for the clergy to filch wealth
and power to themselves.

Lucretius (94-49 BCE)
All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and
ridiculous to the philosopher.

Carl Sagan (1934-1996)
The sacred truth of science is that there are no sacred truths.

Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into.

There is much more to come which will reveal the sloppiness and inaccuracies of the bible.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:43 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:59 pm
Since Gary was kind enough to bestow upon us the wisdom of the ages regarding religion (specifically
Christianity), following is a small collection of the thoughts of others during the early ages of Jesus and
the christian church (created by St Paul).

Anaxagoras (500-428 BCE)
Everything has a natural explanation. The moon is not a god but a great rock and the sun a hot rock.

Anaximander (610-546 BCE)
Living creatures rose from the moist element as it was evaporated by the sun. Man was like another
animal, namely a fish, in the beginning.

Aristophanes (448-385 BCE)
Shrines! Shrines! Surely you don’t believe in the gods. What’s your argument? Where’s your proof?

Aristotle 384-322 BCE)
Men create gods after their own image, not only with regard to their form, but with regard
to their mode of life.

St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD)
Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens…about the motions and
orbits of the stars…and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience.
It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about
such things claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture.

Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
If I had believed in a God of rewards and punishments, I might have lost courage in battle.

God fights on the side with the best artillery.

My firm conviction is that Jesus was put to death like any other fanatic who professed to
be a prophet or a messiah; there have been such persons at all times…Besides, how could I
accept a religion which would damn Socrates and Plato?

Buddha (623-543 BCE)
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it or it has been handed down for
many generations or because it is found written in your religious books or merely on the
authority of your teachers and elders.

Jesus Christ (4 BC-33 AD)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace,
but a sword. Matt 10:34

King David (1011-971 BCE)
For I have done your bidding. I have slain mine enemies in your name. I have put women
and children to death in your honor. I have caused great pain among them, for your glory.

Democritus (460-370 BCE)
Nothing exists except atoms and empty space. Everything else is opinion.

Diogenes (412-323 BCE)
When I look upon seamen, men of science, and philosophers, man is the wisest of all beings.
When I look upon priests and prophets…nothing is so contemptible as man.

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
It was a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically
repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.

Euripides (480-406 BCE)
Do we, holding that the gods exist, deceive ourselves with insubstantial dreams and lies,
while random careless chance and chance alone control the world?

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man…perverted into an
engine for enslaving mankind…a mere contrivance for the clergy to filch wealth
and power to themselves.

Lucretius (94-49 BCE)
All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and
ridiculous to the philosopher.

Carl Sagan (1934-1996)
The sacred truth of science is that there are no sacred truths.

Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into.

There is much more to come which will reveal the sloppiness and inaccuracies of the bible.
Nice opinion piece, I was kind of hoping for actual historical information but what can you expect.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:51 pm

Like what the historians actually wrote about their time not about what they thought.
Suetonius. Another Roman historian who also makes one reference to Jesus and one to Christians is Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas. Little is known about him except that he was the chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian (117 138 A.D.) and that he had access to the imperial records.(8) The first reference occurs in the section on emperor Claudius (41 54 A.D.). Writing about the same time as Tacitus,(9) Suetonius remarked concerning Claudius:

Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the city.(10)

The translator notes that “Chrestus” is a variant spelling of “Christ,” as noted by other commentators as well,(11) and is virtually the same as Tacitus’ Latin spelling.

Suetonius refers to a wave of riots which broke out in a large Jewish community in Rome during the year of 49 A.D. As a result, the Jews were banished from the city. Incidentally, this statement has an interesting corroboration in Acts 18:2, which relates that Paul met a Jewish couple from Pontus named Aquila and his wife Priscilla, who had recently left Italy because Claudius had demanded that all Jews leave Rome.

The second reference from Suetonius is again to the Christians who were tortured by emperor Nero:

After the great fire at Rome . . . . Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief.(12)

Few facts are derived from the two references by Suetonius. The first relates (1) to the expulsion of Jews from Rome, but also makes the claim (2) that it was Christ who caused the Jews to make the uproar in Rome, apparently by his teachings. The second reference is quite similar to the longer statement by Tacitus, (3) including the use of the word “mischievous” to describe the group’s beliefs and (4) the term “Christians” to identify this group as followers of the teachings of Christ.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:25 am

Think of all those millions of lost souls who died before those old guys made up the eternal salvation myth.
What About People Who Never Hear the Gospel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T09dAdN5ApQ

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by exhaustgases » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:54 am

The Bible just proves that people that think they know something don't. All of mans teachings are semi false, since they don't know all that they think they do. And I'm talking the sciences, just lots of guess work based on some math and flimsy man thought out laws of nature. Yea Redsuits I'm talking about you.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:21 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:54 am
The Bible just proves that people that think they know something don't. All of mans teachings are semi false, since they don't know all that they think they do. And I'm talking the sciences, just lots of guess work based on some math and flimsy man thought out laws of nature. Yea Redsuits I'm talking about you.
Yes, I find it fascinating that all of the stuff that I hated in school... Math, Science, History and Language becomes a whole new world when doing an actual bible study.
The bible can be very simple if you understand that scripture interprets scripture and you take a little time to learn it but if you really get deep into it you learn how complex Greek and Hebrew is and also how simply precise the message is based on the context of what is written.
Then you factor in the learning about how history verification is done and that leads you to learning historical facts you never knew existed even as recent as the 17 and 1800 hundreds and the amount of false information that has come about that is still believed to this day as fact but yet it is easily disputed if one is willing to look into it.

There is a scripture that is often used to claim the bible is incorrect in regards t the circumference of a bowl and it is easily answered in at least 3 different ways but one of the most interesting ones is when you go back to the original Hebrew and understand the numeric system assigned to the Hebrew alphabet and it actually confirms the dimensions to a more accurate pi than what we would consider acceptable today.

The amount of stuff that has been uncovered in the last 50 years has shown the bible to be multi denominational if you will and we have only scratched the service.

One of the most recent findings being called "The Words Oldest Alphabet" are Hebrew writings in Egyptian artifacts much earlier than people "thought" the Hebrew people were in Egypt. In those Egyptian writings are also the names of several of the prominent figures from the biblical record like Moses as well as writing from Manasseh

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Circlotron » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:42 pm

GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:21 pm
and also how simply precise the message is based on the context of what is written.
Could you summarise the overall message of the Bible in one sentence?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by joe 90 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:57 pm

1 + 1 = 3

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:07 am

Circlotron wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:42 pm
GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:21 pm
and also how simply precise the message is based on the context of what is written.
Could you summarise the overall message of the Bible in one sentence?
God created man with free will, man chose the wrong path, God knowing we would provided a predestine savior his name is Jesus!

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Circlotron » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:47 am

joe 90 wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:57 pm
1 + 1 = 3
That is church nonsense, not from Bible.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Circlotron » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:48 am

GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:07 am
God created man with free will, man chose the wrong path, God knowing we would provided a predestine savior his name is Jesus!
How could the death of just one man benefit everyone?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:03 am

Circlotron wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:48 am
GARY C wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:07 am
God created man with free will, man chose the wrong path, God knowing we would provided a predestine savior his name is Jesus!
How could the death of just one man benefit everyone?
The same why the sin of one man could effect everyone!
Then again Jesus wasn't just a man He was the messiah prophesied about in the Old Testament!

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