The Science of Disinformation

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Firedome8
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Firedome8 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:37 am

David Redszus wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:07 am
There are plenty of reasons why most of the world does not believe in Christianity nor accept scripture as anything but fragmented relics of the past.

Historically, Christianity was forced upon people at the point of a Roman sword, a crusader's lance, or a Spaniard's musket.

But religion, all religions, are the fountainheads of disinformation for various reasons.
Sometimes intentional, sometimes not.

When Paul founded Christianity, he did so for personal financial gain. He saw the benefit of creating a communication and assistance franchise for merchants and travelers. His work continues today.

Whoever mentioned "lipstick on a pig"...had it perfectly correct.
Paul was a tool of the Romans.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by sanfordandson » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:49 am

GARY C wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:12 pm
sanfordandson wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:19 pm
I see one of Garys idols, Bernard Law has died.

Too bad this loser who protected child molesting priests didn't die sooner.
Apparently he means more to you than he does to me, I have never heard the name.

Could it be your fear of being exposed for such practices that causes you to point out those kind of people?
No, it was on the news.

Figured a religious scholar such as yourself knew all the child molesters!

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:53 am

David Redszus wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:07 am
There are plenty of reasons why most of the world does not believe in Christianity nor accept scripture as anything but fragmented relics of the past.

Historically, Christianity was forced upon people at the point of a Roman sword, a crusader's lance, or a Spaniard's musket.

But religion, all religions, are the fountainheads of disinformation for various reasons.
Sometimes intentional, sometimes not.

When Paul founded Christianity, he did so for personal financial gain. He saw the benefit of creating a communication and assistance franchise for merchants and travelers. His work continues today.

Whoever mentioned "lipstick on a pig"...had it perfectly correct.
Lets see Homers has 643 manuscripts date 800 year after his life. Thats the best documented secular text.
New Testament has over 24,000 in different languages dated from 30 to 150 years after Christ, of those there are over 5000 greek NT all confirming one another for accuracy.

Christianity was in existence under persecution long before the Catholic church was born.
Constantine received a formal education at Diocletian's court, where he learned Latin literature, Greek, and philosophy.[48] The cultural environment in Nicomedia was open, fluid and socially mobile, and Constantine could mix with intellectuals both pagan and Christian. He may have attended the lectures of Lactantius, a Christian scholar of Latin in the city.[49] Because Diocletian did not completely trust Constantius—none of the Tetrarchs fully trusted their colleagues—Constantine was held as something of a hostage, a tool to ensure Constantius's best behavior. Constantine was nonetheless a prominent member of the court: he fought for Diocletian and Galerius in Asia, and served in a variety of tribunates; he campaigned against barbarians on the Danube in 296 AD, and fought the Persians under Diocletian in Syria (297 AD) and under Galerius in Mesopotamia (298–299 AD).[50] By late 305 AD, he had become a tribune of the first order, a tribunus ordinis primi.[51]

Constantine had returned to Nicomedia from the eastern front by the spring of 303 AD, in time to witness the beginnings of Diocletian's "Great Persecution", the most severe persecution of Christians in Roman history.[52] In late 302, Diocletian and Galerius sent a messenger to the oracle of Apollo at Didyma with an inquiry about Christians.[53] Constantine could recall his presence at the palace when the messenger returned, when Diocletian accepted his court's demands for universal persecution.[54] On 23 February 303 AD, Diocletian ordered the destruction of Nicomedia's new church, condemned its scriptures to the flames, and had its treasures seized. In the months that followed, churches and scriptures were destroyed, Christians were deprived of official ranks, and priests were imprisoned.[
Yes Paul went from being a powerful wealthy Jew with Roman citizenship to being beat, imprisoned an killed...Thats one hell of a business man.
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:53 am

sanfordandson wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:49 am
GARY C wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:12 pm
sanfordandson wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:19 pm
I see one of Garys idols, Bernard Law has died.

Too bad this loser who protected child molesting priests didn't die sooner.
Apparently he means more to you than he does to me, I have never heard the name.

Could it be your fear of being exposed for such practices that causes you to point out those kind of people?
No, it was on the news.

Figured a religious scholar such as yourself knew all the child molesters!
I've never met you in person.
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:01 pm

A little historical food for thought while you ponder your next conspiracy theory. So they forced people to become Christians those they could persecute and kill them for becoming Christians...Isn't that one of those contradiction things so many speak of?
The New Testament does not say when or how Paul died. The date of Paul's death is believed to have occurred after the Great Fire of Rome in July 64, but before the last year of Nero's reign, in 68.

Paul's death is described in a number of sources:

I Clement (95–96 AD) suggests that both Paul and Peter were martyred.[84]
There is an early tradition found in the writing of Ignatius, probably around 110 AD, that Paul was martyred.[85]
Dionysius of Corinth, in a letter to the Romans (166–174 AD), stated that Paul and Peter were martyred in Italy.[86] Eusebius also cites the Dionysius passage.[87]
The Acts of Paul, an apocryphal work written around 160, describes the martyrdom of Paul. According to the Acts of Paul, Nero condemned Paul to death by decapitation.[88]
Tertullian in his Prescription Against Heretics (200 AD) writes that Paul had a similar death to that of John the Baptist, who was beheaded.[89]
Eusebius of Caesarea in his Church History (320 AD) testifies that Paul was beheaded in Rome and Peter crucified. He wrote that the tombs of these two apostles, with their inscriptions, were extant in his time; and quotes as his authority a holy man of the name of Caius.[90]
Lactantius wrote that Nero "crucified Peter, and slew Paul" (318 AD).[91]
Jerome in his De Viris Illustribus (On Illustrious Men) (392 AD) states that Paul was beheaded at Rome.[92]
John Chrysostom (c. 349–407) wrote that Nero knew Paul personally and had him killed.[93]
Sulpicius Severus says Nero killed Peter and Paul. (403 AD)[94]

A legend later[when?] developed that his martyrdom occurred at the Aquae Salviae, on the Via Laurentina. According to this legend, after Paul was decapitated, his severed head rebounded three times, giving rise to a source of water each time that it touched the ground, which is how the place earned the name "San Paolo alle Tre Fontane" ("St Paul at the Three Fountains").[95][96] Also according to legend, Paul's body was buried outside the walls of Rome, at the second mile on the Via Ostiensis, on the estate owned by a Christian woman named Lucina. It was here, in the fourth century, that the Emperor Constantine the Great built a first church. Then, between the fourth and fifth centuries it was considerably enlarged by the Emperors Valentinian I, Valentinian II, Theodosius I, and Arcadius. The present-day Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls was built there in 1800.[95]
Remains

Caius in his Disputation Against Proclus (198 AD) mentions this of the places in which the remains of the apostles Peter and Paul were deposited: "I can point out the trophies of the apostles. For if you are willing to go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way, you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church".[97]

Jerome in his De Viris Illustribus (392 AD) writing on Paul's biography, mentions that "Paul was buried in the Ostian Way at Rome".[92]

In 2002, an 8 foot long marble sarcophagus, inscribed with the words "PAULO APOSTOLO MART" ("Paul apostle martyr") was discovered during excavations around the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls on the Via Ostiensis. Vatican archaeologists declared this to be the tomb of Paul the Apostle in 2005.[98] In June 2009, Pope Benedict XVI announced excavation results concerning the tomb. The sarcophagus was not opened but was examined by means of a probe, which revealed pieces of incense, purple and blue linen, and small bone fragments. The bone was radiocarbon-dated to the 1st or 2nd century. According to the Vatican, these findings support the conclusion that the tomb is Paul's.[99][100]
205 foot note links for those who like to do home work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Firedome8 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:16 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:01 pm
A little historical food for thought while you ponder your next conspiracy theory. So they forced people to become Christians those they could persecute and kill them for becoming Christians...Isn't that one of those contradiction things so many speak of?
The New Testament does not say when or how Paul died. The date of Paul's death is believed to have occurred after the Great Fire of Rome in July 64, but before the last year of Nero's reign, in 68.

Paul's death is described in a number of sources:

I Clement (95–96 AD) suggests that both Paul and Peter were martyred.[84]
There is an early tradition found in the writing of Ignatius, probably around 110 AD, that Paul was martyred.[85]
Dionysius of Corinth, in a letter to the Romans (166–174 AD), stated that Paul and Peter were martyred in Italy.[86] Eusebius also cites the Dionysius passage.[87]
The Acts of Paul, an apocryphal work written around 160, describes the martyrdom of Paul. According to the Acts of Paul, Nero condemned Paul to death by decapitation.[88]
Tertullian in his Prescription Against Heretics (200 AD) writes that Paul had a similar death to that of John the Baptist, who was beheaded.[89]
Eusebius of Caesarea in his Church History (320 AD) testifies that Paul was beheaded in Rome and Peter crucified. He wrote that the tombs of these two apostles, with their inscriptions, were extant in his time; and quotes as his authority a holy man of the name of Caius.[90]
Lactantius wrote that Nero "crucified Peter, and slew Paul" (318 AD).[91]
Jerome in his De Viris Illustribus (On Illustrious Men) (392 AD) states that Paul was beheaded at Rome.[92]
John Chrysostom (c. 349–407) wrote that Nero knew Paul personally and had him killed.[93]
Sulpicius Severus says Nero killed Peter and Paul. (403 AD)[94]

A legend later[when?] developed that his martyrdom occurred at the Aquae Salviae, on the Via Laurentina. According to this legend, after Paul was decapitated, his severed head rebounded three times, giving rise to a source of water each time that it touched the ground, which is how the place earned the name "San Paolo alle Tre Fontane" ("St Paul at the Three Fountains").[95][96] Also according to legend, Paul's body was buried outside the walls of Rome, at the second mile on the Via Ostiensis, on the estate owned by a Christian woman named Lucina. It was here, in the fourth century, that the Emperor Constantine the Great built a first church. Then, between the fourth and fifth centuries it was considerably enlarged by the Emperors Valentinian I, Valentinian II, Theodosius I, and Arcadius. The present-day Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls was built there in 1800.[95]
Remains

Caius in his Disputation Against Proclus (198 AD) mentions this of the places in which the remains of the apostles Peter and Paul were deposited: "I can point out the trophies of the apostles. For if you are willing to go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way, you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church".[97]

Jerome in his De Viris Illustribus (392 AD) writing on Paul's biography, mentions that "Paul was buried in the Ostian Way at Rome".[92]

In 2002, an 8 foot long marble sarcophagus, inscribed with the words "PAULO APOSTOLO MART" ("Paul apostle martyr") was discovered during excavations around the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls on the Via Ostiensis. Vatican archaeologists declared this to be the tomb of Paul the Apostle in 2005.[98] In June 2009, Pope Benedict XVI announced excavation results concerning the tomb. The sarcophagus was not opened but was examined by means of a probe, which revealed pieces of incense, purple and blue linen, and small bone fragments. The bone was radiocarbon-dated to the 1st or 2nd century. According to the Vatican, these findings support the conclusion that the tomb is Paul's.[99][100]
205 foot note links for those who like to do home work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
Paul was most likely a historical figure. I do not think he met jesus on the road to Damascus?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:14 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:16 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:01 pm
A little historical food for thought while you ponder your next conspiracy theory. So they forced people to become Christians those they could persecute and kill them for becoming Christians...Isn't that one of those contradiction things so many speak of?
The New Testament does not say when or how Paul died. The date of Paul's death is believed to have occurred after the Great Fire of Rome in July 64, but before the last year of Nero's reign, in 68.

Paul's death is described in a number of sources:

I Clement (95–96 AD) suggests that both Paul and Peter were martyred.[84]
There is an early tradition found in the writing of Ignatius, probably around 110 AD, that Paul was martyred.[85]
Dionysius of Corinth, in a letter to the Romans (166–174 AD), stated that Paul and Peter were martyred in Italy.[86] Eusebius also cites the Dionysius passage.[87]
The Acts of Paul, an apocryphal work written around 160, describes the martyrdom of Paul. According to the Acts of Paul, Nero condemned Paul to death by decapitation.[88]
Tertullian in his Prescription Against Heretics (200 AD) writes that Paul had a similar death to that of John the Baptist, who was beheaded.[89]
Eusebius of Caesarea in his Church History (320 AD) testifies that Paul was beheaded in Rome and Peter crucified. He wrote that the tombs of these two apostles, with their inscriptions, were extant in his time; and quotes as his authority a holy man of the name of Caius.[90]
Lactantius wrote that Nero "crucified Peter, and slew Paul" (318 AD).[91]
Jerome in his De Viris Illustribus (On Illustrious Men) (392 AD) states that Paul was beheaded at Rome.[92]
John Chrysostom (c. 349–407) wrote that Nero knew Paul personally and had him killed.[93]
Sulpicius Severus says Nero killed Peter and Paul. (403 AD)[94]

A legend later[when?] developed that his martyrdom occurred at the Aquae Salviae, on the Via Laurentina. According to this legend, after Paul was decapitated, his severed head rebounded three times, giving rise to a source of water each time that it touched the ground, which is how the place earned the name "San Paolo alle Tre Fontane" ("St Paul at the Three Fountains").[95][96] Also according to legend, Paul's body was buried outside the walls of Rome, at the second mile on the Via Ostiensis, on the estate owned by a Christian woman named Lucina. It was here, in the fourth century, that the Emperor Constantine the Great built a first church. Then, between the fourth and fifth centuries it was considerably enlarged by the Emperors Valentinian I, Valentinian II, Theodosius I, and Arcadius. The present-day Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls was built there in 1800.[95]
Remains

Caius in his Disputation Against Proclus (198 AD) mentions this of the places in which the remains of the apostles Peter and Paul were deposited: "I can point out the trophies of the apostles. For if you are willing to go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way, you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church".[97]

Jerome in his De Viris Illustribus (392 AD) writing on Paul's biography, mentions that "Paul was buried in the Ostian Way at Rome".[92]

In 2002, an 8 foot long marble sarcophagus, inscribed with the words "PAULO APOSTOLO MART" ("Paul apostle martyr") was discovered during excavations around the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls on the Via Ostiensis. Vatican archaeologists declared this to be the tomb of Paul the Apostle in 2005.[98] In June 2009, Pope Benedict XVI announced excavation results concerning the tomb. The sarcophagus was not opened but was examined by means of a probe, which revealed pieces of incense, purple and blue linen, and small bone fragments. The bone was radiocarbon-dated to the 1st or 2nd century. According to the Vatican, these findings support the conclusion that the tomb is Paul's.[99][100]
205 foot note links for those who like to do home work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
Paul was most likely a historical figure. I do not think he met jesus on the road to Damascus?
I'm sure your right, it's only "logical" that he would give up everything to be beheaded for nothing...Thats what everyone strives for right?
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Firedome8 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 pm

http://postflaviana.org/introduction-fl ... istianity/

Hummmm I guess just another viewpoint I have read various articles over tine discussing this .

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:48 am

Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 pm
http://postflaviana.org/introduction-fl ... istianity/

Hummmm I guess just another viewpoint I have read various articles over tine discussing this .
Can you find any actual historical record to back it? It's easy to present assumptions as fact as long as you don't have to back them with what the historians actually said.
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:24 am

GARY C wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:48 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 pm
http://postflaviana.org/introduction-fl ... istianity/

Hummmm I guess just another viewpoint I have read various articles over tine discussing this .
Can you find any actual historical record to back it? It's easy to present assumptions as fact as long as you don't have to back them with what the historians actually said.
If you study this further it makes more sense than supernatural hocus pocus . the jesus story isn't real and can not be taken literally, to the Romans it's just another god man story. If their is a god and a devil maybe the story you promote is the grand deception.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:44 am


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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:24 am
GARY C wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:48 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 pm
http://postflaviana.org/introduction-fl ... istianity/

Hummmm I guess just another viewpoint I have read various articles over tine discussing this .
Can you find any actual historical record to back it? It's easy to present assumptions as fact as long as you don't have to back them with what the historians actually said.
If you study this further it makes more sense than supernatural hocus pocus . the jesus story isn't real and can not be taken literally, to the Romans it's just another god man story. If their is a god and a devil maybe the story you promote is the grand deception.
I have studied them, that is why I ask you the question.
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:33 pm

The opening paragraph reveals the information to prove the theory wrong.
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:00 pm

GARY C wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:33 pm
The opening paragraph reveals the information to prove the theory wrong.
Yea go with the demons and talking snake theory ,,,you looked up all the references at the bottom of page or did you even read it? Gary you at so brainwashed, it is telling how powerful this BS is.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:20 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:00 pm
GARY C wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:33 pm
The opening paragraph reveals the information to prove the theory wrong.
Yea go with the demons and talking snake theory ,,,you looked up all the references at the bottom of page or did you even read it? Gary you at so brainwashed, it is telling how powerful this BS is.
All old arguments that don't hold water, they sound good if you don't actually know what the bible teaches.
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