"Fossil fuel" reality check

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David Redszus
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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by David Redszus » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:16 am

paulzig wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:11 am
The term fossil is misused here to refer to something that is old or aged... The fuel itself is decaying organisms under pressure and heat not fossils.
Any idea how it all ended up in one hole?
Oil is not in one place; it is wide spread world wide. In some locations it is closer to the surface and much easier to recover. Oil resevoirs (?) follow cracks and crevices within rock formations.
Any idea why many of the wells thought to be empty have refilled them selves?
Capillary action is the main reason. Oil will seep into any available crevice.

The ocean floors are surfaces that are in the process of forming new oil deposits. All we need to do is be patient. A few dozen million years and we can start pumping.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by axegrinder » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:21 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:42 pm
pdq67 wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:11 pm
A real world gas mileage reality check here using my old survivor '67SS/RS Camaro car.

Stock, 295hp/350, M-20 and 3.31 regs and about 25.3"/29.5" dia. or so tires was like 16.5 to 17 mpg running about 70 mph back then.

Same combination, but with a 350hp/327, -151 hy-cam in her! About 15.5 to 16 mpg! The old -151 cam pulled like a, "freight train"!!!

My old, junk301 with an old junkyard, -097 Duntov in it was still like 16 mpg. Sucker would hit 7,000+ rpm any time I put my foot in it!

I didn't keep the old hopped up 300hp/327 that was in my car when I got it back so don't know. It had a 268 hy-cam in it. Those damned little 268/270 hy-cams run fine in the old 250/275/300hp/327 engines! One will wake them right up!!

I never figured the gas mileage for my .060" over, 11.5 to 1 CR, full house/"tripped", 409 "W" engine, but I always thought it would be about 10 mpg??

The big sucker ran like a 283 on steroids!!

Now my Strong-Arm 406, about 15 with 26.5" dia. tires running about 55 mph on the 4-lane commuting daily. Cam was a 292/230, 109/107 or so, .480" lift old-school jobber!

I haven't lit off my 496 yet so don't know how it's gas mileage will be?

pdq67
This is a topic I looked into a few dozen years ago; horsepower vs fuel economy.

Given the same body shape (similar frontal area and Cd) and running at the same mph, fuel economy results were nearly equal.

So how much horsepower does it take to propel a Camaro at a constant 70 mph? How much fuel?

I've heard 7 to 13 horsepower for the average car to cruise at 60mph. I haven't done any math to check those numbers though.

When I was in high school I had a $400 1970s shit box Subaru that got well over 30 mpg. Now we have to pay twenty times the money for a newer, but still used, shiny shit box that doesn't get much better mileage.
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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by joe 90 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:21 am

35 HP is about spot on.

Only because a lot of old British cars only made about 35 HP and that's their top speed.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by exhaustgases » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:26 pm

GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:05 pm
paulzig wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:11 am
The term fossil is misused here to refer to something that is old or aged... The fuel itself is decaying organisms under pressure and heat not fossils.
Any idea how it all ended up in one hole?
Any idea why many of the wells thought to be empty have refilled them selves?
Because of heat and pressure H2o and minerals - elements, is what makes oil, not the make believe from the so called scientists. Carbon is an element not an animal.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by GARY C » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:31 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:26 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:05 pm
paulzig wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:11 am
The term fossil is misused here to refer to something that is old or aged... The fuel itself is decaying organisms under pressure and heat not fossils.
Any idea how it all ended up in one hole?
Any idea why many of the wells thought to be empty have refilled them selves?
Because of heat and pressure H2o and minerals - elements, is what makes oil, not the make believe from the so called scientists. Carbon is an element not an animal.
Yeah I would like to see more people on the science side of that start pushing the fact that it's a natural renewable energy and not fossil fuel.
Here is a short interview with the scientist that sued the EPA for literally putting people in a sort of gas chamber to prove particulates or deadly, he was involved in the info that got Trump to shut down the latest climate change movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSqtElQncQM

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by paulzig » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:11 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:26 pm


Because of heat and pressure H2o and minerals - elements, is what makes oil, not the make believe from the so called scientists. Carbon is an element not an animal.
All life on the face of the earth has carbon in it... Humans, animals, plants... Like I said before forget the name 'fossil' its a misnomer.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by David Redszus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:23 pm

paulzig wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:11 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:26 pm


Because of heat and pressure H2o and minerals - elements, is what makes oil, not the make believe from the so called scientists. Carbon is an element not an animal.
All life on the face of the earth has carbon in it... Humans, animals, plants... Like I said before forget the name 'fossil' its a misnomer.
Quite correct. Here's the definition of fossil:
The evidence in rock of the presence of a plant or an animal from an earlier geological period. Fossils are formed when minerals in groundwater replace materials in bones and tissue, creating a replica in stone of the original organism or of their tracks.

A fossil is a replica of the original organism.

Crude oil is formed by the remains of living organisms, both animal and vegetable. It usually consists of about 85% carbon and 14% hydrogen, with minute traces of other elements.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:38 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:23 pm
paulzig wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:11 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:26 pm


Because of heat and pressure H2o and minerals - elements, is what makes oil, not the make believe from the so called scientists. Carbon is an element not an animal.
All life on the face of the earth has carbon in it... Humans, animals, plants... Like I said before forget the name 'fossil' its a misnomer.
Quite correct. Here's the definition of fossil:
The evidence in rock of the presence of a plant or an animal from an earlier geological period. Fossils are formed when minerals in groundwater replace materials in bones and tissue, creating a replica in stone of the original organism or of their tracks.

A fossil is a replica of the original organism.

Crude oil is formed by the remains of living organisms, both animal and vegetable. It usually consists of about 85% carbon and 14% hydrogen, with minute traces of other elements.
Not true. That is the typical teaching from the Leftist controlled schooling though. How does animal material get miles under the earth? How come all cemetery's aren't loaded with oil? How would all the animal materials pass though all the solid rock layers and through clay layers and all that?
And there is proof that is junk science.
https://principia-scientific.org/russia ... 2-science/

I'm surprised you so fully support the Demo c rats on this topic. Just wow.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by David Redszus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:05 pm

All life on the face of the earth has carbon in it... Humans, animals, plants... Like I said before forget the name 'fossil' its a misnomer.


Quite correct. Here's the definition of fossil:
The evidence in rock of the presence of a plant or an animal from an earlier geological period. Fossils are formed when minerals in groundwater replace materials in bones and tissue, creating a replica in stone of the original organism or of their tracks.

A fossil is a replica of the original organism.

Crude oil is formed by the remains of living organisms, both animal and vegetable. It usually consists of about 85% carbon and 14% hydrogen, with minute traces of other elements.
Not true. That is the typical teaching from the Leftist controlled schooling though. I'm surprised you so fully support the Demo c rats on this topic. Just wow.
When I went to engineering school, there was no leftist controlled schooling; good engineering schools do not buy into the pseudo science of the left.
How does animal material get miles under the earth?
The organic materials (both animal and vegetable) start at the bottoms of oceans and are driven deep into the earth by plate tectonics.
How come all cemetery's aren't loaded with oil?
If we could heat and pressurize all those graves for a few thousand years, we might get a pint of crude oil. Please be patient.
How would all the animal materials pass though all the solid rock layers and through clay layers and all that?
Clay is not found at great depths. The rocks are not solid but have pores, cracks and fissures that run for hundreds of miles. They also do not stay in place as evidenced by the actions of earth quakes.

The organic building blocks of crude oil consist of carbon and hydrogen, both of which can be found in gaseous form (H2, CO, CO2), which can even bubble up under the ocean...which it does.

Where did you study geology, chemistry and physics? Which engineering texts could you direct us toward in our search for technical enlightenment?

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by Ken0069 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:50 pm

axegrinder wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:21 pm
When I was in high school I had a $400 1970s shit box Subaru that got well over 30 mpg. Now we have to pay twenty times the money for a newer, but still used, shiny shit box that doesn't get much better mileage.
I've got a shit box 1991 Geo Metro that gets 47MPG running around the neighborhood and on a road trip will get 52MPG. I paid $5400 for that car used with 35K miles on it in 1994.

Fast forward to the 2014 Hyundai Accent I bought last March and paid $10,500 cash for that with 16k miles on it and it only gets 42MPG on a road trip.

I will admit though that the Hyundai is a much nicer car than the Geo ever was.
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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by GARY C » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:53 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:23 pm
paulzig wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:11 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:26 pm


Because of heat and pressure H2o and minerals - elements, is what makes oil, not the make believe from the so called scientists. Carbon is an element not an animal.
All life on the face of the earth has carbon in it... Humans, animals, plants... Like I said before forget the name 'fossil' its a misnomer.
Quite correct. Here's the definition of fossil:
The evidence in rock of the presence of a plant or an animal from an earlier geological period. Fossils are formed when minerals in groundwater replace materials in bones and tissue, creating a replica in stone of the original organism or of their tracks.

A fossil is a replica of the original organism.

Crude oil is formed by the remains of living organisms, both animal and vegetable. It usually consists of about 85% carbon and 14% hydrogen, with minute traces of other elements.
The problems I understand with that is if you buried every living thing on earth today you would not be able to make the amount of coal, oil and diatomaceous earth we have and if you try to create it with millions of years you can't get it either.

To fossilize you need a rapid burial in the right condition, when things die they don't lay there waiting to fossilize. We know we have giant coal deposits in one clump some are coal, rock and coal with petrified trees running through all three layers. We have giant diatomaceous earth deposits the largest one has a complete petrified whale in it we know the wale didn't die and sink to the bottom waiting to be covered and fossilize.

There is another possibility but most will never consider it even though scientist say it would produce what we see.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by paulzig » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:35 am

GARY C wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:53 pm

There is another possibility but most will never consider it even though scientist say it would produce what we see.

What would that be? Magic?

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by GARY C » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:38 am

paulzig wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:35 am
GARY C wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:53 pm

There is another possibility but most will never consider it even though scientist say it would produce what we see.

What would that be? Magic?
In your mind maybe, I only look at facts and science.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by David Redszus » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 am

Consider that at one time, in the geological history of the planet, the atmosphere consisted of 95% carbon dioxide.
Where did all that carbon go?

Gases were formed long before solid matter. In fact, Russian deep wells are finding simple hydrocarbons (methane) at very great depths. They did not form at the surface and work their way down.

Carbon and hydrogen gases formed the basic building blocks of life, later evolving into more complex molecules.
Living matter, either animal (not vertebrates), or vegetable (in very simple forms), allowed the carbon chain construction of higher forms of life. We are not speaking about dinosaurs or trees here, but rather algae and other micro organisms.

The real issue is not where did the hydrogen and carbon come from, but rather how did it form into complex carbon chains with high molecular weights. What conditions were necessary for their formation? There is no reason to believe the process has stopped, even though we may not be able to see it at work.

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Re: "Fossil fuel" reality check

Post by GARY C » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:30 am

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 am
Consider that at one time, in the geological history of the planet, the atmosphere consisted of 95% carbon dioxide.
Where did all that carbon go?

Gases were formed long before solid matter. In fact, Russian deep wells are finding simple hydrocarbons (methane) at very great depths. They did not form at the surface and work their way down.

Carbon and hydrogen gases formed the basic building blocks of life, later evolving into more complex molecules.
Living matter, either animal (not vertebrates), or vegetable (in very simple forms), allowed the carbon chain construction of higher forms of life. We are not speaking about dinosaurs or trees here, but rather algae and other micro organisms.

The real issue is not where did the hydrogen and carbon come from, but rather how did it form into complex carbon chains with high molecular weights. What conditions were necessary for their formation? There is no reason to believe the process has stopped, even though we may not be able to see it at work.
In light of the conversation I have to ask.
Do you know this for a fact?
Were you there or did someone tell you this?

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