California may ban combustion engines!

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Cougar5.0
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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by Cougar5.0 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:12 pm

MadBill wrote:Ah! When you wrote "self-powered" I took it to mean "powered by me, myself". #-o

Re the last, diesel is the operative word, at least for American trains...
Yes, but it makes an interesting (IMO) point about energy conversion/generation.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by statsystems » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:31 am

Cougar5.0 wrote:
MadBill wrote:
Cougar5.0 wrote:I agree - the sound part is the worst - even fake sound is better than just gear whine and tire scrubbing.

Funny, as I thought about the sound, I realized that nearly 100% of people in this country "drove" an electric "vehicle" as the first self-powered vehicle they ever had the wheel to (think about it.) :wink:
Are we talking pedal cars and bikes with playing cards rubbing on the spokes? If so, the muscle power comes from chemical reactions, just the control system is electric.
Think a little harder. :)

The first self-powered wheeled vehicles I "drove" were electric bumper cars and/or electric go-carts at the beach.

I got to school on an electric trolley, then took the electric subway, finally reached my school in an electric bus.

40% of all revenue ton-miles for all freight transportation is moved by means of a traction motor (diesel electric.)

So batteries are good for toys, a trolley that much like a bus is essentially worthless for all except the people who think others should subsidize their transportation, same with the subway and I've never seen an electric school bus.

Everything you've mentioned is worthless for most of it. If you want to live like a sardine in a nasty city, more power to you. But if you really care about your unfounded beliefs, you should walk everywhere. Or maybe ride a bike.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by piston guy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:10 am

MILLIONS of cars here in California use BILLIONS of gallons of gas annually. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the petroleum companies aren't going to lose ALL THAT $$$$$$ without a fight. Long term ( 30+ years) , maybe but I'll be farting dust by then or at best be in a home being spoon fed and wearing a depends without a care in the world.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by Cougar5.0 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:22 am

Trackless (electric) trolley's have been around since before most of us were born:

Image

I took one to school in the 60's.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by DaveMcLain » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:40 am

In St Louis a local dairy, I think it was Peavely Dairy used electric trucks to deliver milk all around the city for about 30 years. They stopped using them some time in the '60's I believe because people started to move out into the county(area got too big) and they were no longer practical. So for local use they worked well enough.

I know that technology has improved but to think that having no combustion engines in a state as big and varied as California is rather unrealistic for the foreseeable future in my opinion unless DRAMATIC improvements in technology happen. It also has to be a viable money making venture not something that relies totally on being subsidized to keep the lights on in the factory.

I did some research into wind power at least in how it is done in Europe and to me it seems like nothing but a big boondoggle. Each windmill is run like a non profit corporation with investors who use it as a tax write off. It gets subsidies so it doesn't matter if it is running or broken down it still provides financial advantages to the investors but not the environment. Most never produce enough energy to ever make up for the energy it took to make them in the first place, in other words, a loser.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by Steve.k » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:56 am

Dave you are correct! Ive been to Europe a few times and thats the case. Its the same here, the electric deal has more to do with corporations and lawyers and politicians making a ton of money and nothing to do with green. Carbon credits are a perfect example of this. If you build a green engine you get credits once u have so many you can sell them to another mfg who does not??? What the hell does that do for green? I also know a guy who sells power to the US for the generation companies. A US firm will buy all the power he has as long as green. IE dam generation! However from his home province BC if they need extra power cause they sold it all to you they will buy albertas dirty rotten coal power??? Seems funny doesnt it.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by Schurkey » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:58 am

rebelrouser wrote:Times change, I am sure the people who made their livings selling and caring for horses at the turn of the century felt the same way about gasoline cars. I think supplying them with electricity is the least of the issues, the minerals used to make batteries and magnets are limited in supply as well. I watched a Telsa spank several newer corvettes the other night at the drag strip, and he still had enough charge to drive home. Eating lunch the other day in Rolla Missouri, and what is in the parking lot of the BBQ joint? A Telsa Charging Station! Change is real hard to stop once it gets momentum.
Eliminate all tax-supported subsidies, make tax-funded propaganda illegal, and prevent government from banning internal-combustion engines. That would decimate electric-vehicle sales.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by DaveMcLain » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:03 pm

Schurkey wrote:
rebelrouser wrote:Times change, I am sure the people who made their livings selling and caring for horses at the turn of the century felt the same way about gasoline cars. I think supplying them with electricity is the least of the issues, the minerals used to make batteries and magnets are limited in supply as well. I watched a Telsa spank several newer corvettes the other night at the drag strip, and he still had enough charge to drive home. Eating lunch the other day in Rolla Missouri, and what is in the parking lot of the BBQ joint? A Telsa Charging Station! Change is real hard to stop once it gets momentum.
I guess it would be ok to wait 2 hours for the Tesla to charge up so that you can make it the 103 miles back to St Louis as long as there is good bar be que to eat. :D

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by utmost » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:42 pm

mag2555 wrote:Maybe it would save the rest of county trillions of dollars if Egg roll Boy does lob a few nukes on the west coast!

Forgive me for saying what I did those of you on this board from CA , but your elected leaders are truly gifted morons!!
I agree, if the san andreas fault would just do its job

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by DaveMcLain » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:07 pm

Can you imagine the logistical nightmare of no combustion engines in the whole state?

A big ship enters the territorial waters of the US heading for the port in Long Beach where it shuts off its combustion engines and is then towed to the dock using electrically powered tugs. Then the freight is unloaded and hauled to the border of the state using electric powered locomotives and road tractors where it is then switched over to trains and trucks using combustion engines which travel across the country... Sure that's going to work..

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by Cougar5.0 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:19 pm

The article and any others I can find are only talking about cars. And only in a practical sense, so by 2035 or 2040. The idea that a place would kill all commerce without a practical alternative isn't even worth discussing.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by DaveMcLain » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:22 pm

Cougar5.0 wrote:The article and any others I can find are only talking about cars. And only in a practical sense, so by 2035 or 2040. The idea that a place would kill all commerce without a practical alternative isn't even worth discussing.
Maybe.... Think about a wheat farmer doing the harvesting in a 6000 acre field using an electric combine. What would they do if the power goes out at the hospital due to an earthquake, storm or some other natural disaster. What will they use for backup power if they can't run diesel generators?

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by Cougar5.0 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:32 pm

Combines and generators? :D Heck, it might even affect the price of tea in China (who, BTW, already is in on track to ban IC cars)!

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by Belgian1979 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:15 pm

haha, this has been debated over here for years already.

I still wonder how they are going to produce all that electricity.

When counting from well to wheel it's not all good.
And even then : let's assume I have a Tesla and I use a genset to load it ? How green is that.

The only winners here are the utilities. They now they are going to loose their grid tied customers due to solar power and now they need 'other' customers.

All a big load of BS.

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Re: California may ban combustion engines!

Post by John Wallace » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:16 pm

A big ship enters the territorial waters of the US heading for the port in Long Beach where it shuts off its combustion engines and is then towed to the dock using electrically powered tugs.
Could always use wind power, about like how America got discovered?

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