National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

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mk e
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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by mk e » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:35 am

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:27 am

Milton Friedman stated the best way to grow the economy was to give the public the freedom to choose.
His treatise on the Great Depression showed how government interference massively delayed economic recovery.

Maynard Keynes suggested that government save money for a rainy day (surplus) and then spend it when needed in order to level out dips in the economy. He was not trying to grow the economy but rather simply keep it level. He railed against the use of increased spending using taxes as being counter-productive. That would be like exceeding your credit card limits in order to boost your economy.

Or as my old boss used to say: "You can piss in the soup and you'll have more soup, but it will taste bad."

Ask Puerto Rico how well that works. Or any Democrap.
We will never know is Milton was right or wrong....but the spending that was attempted during the depression and the great recession recently is what you appear yo support by your siting Keynes....the only question is what timeline is appropriate? The us economy seems to move in about decade swings.....

For sure the US is in an up cycle now and should be saving not spending more borrowed money....and a big tax cut means spending borrowed money unless big spending cuts are made.

Government spending is 35% of GDP, the deficit is 2% and growth is 2-3%. Cutting government spending mire than 3% in 1 year will cause a recession. A plan that cuts 1% gdp or so per year for the next 5-10 years and starts cutying taxes at year 3 or 4 once there is a surplus does not force a recession, we may get one anyway or we may not, its hard to know but at least it's not forced.
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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:05 pm

US history has shown that tax cuts have actually increased revenue rather than reduced it.

The problem we have is that as soon as revenue is increased, politicians rush to spend it and even overspend.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by sanfordandson » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:13 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:05 pm
US history has shown that tax cuts have actually increased revenue rather than reduced it.

The problem we have is that as soon as revenue is increased, politicians rush to spend it and even overspend.
slight increase in revenue and massive increase in debt.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by mk e » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:29 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:05 pm
US history has shown that tax cuts have actually increased revenue rather than reduced it.
I have never seen any data that supports that statement. I've heard it said may times, but never seen data.
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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by Ratu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:33 pm

The boom and bust swings of the economy are not solved by government spending, credit creation and the introduction of more and more fiat currency and/or fiat instruments into circulation. Those behaviours are the root cause of the problem. It's analogous to the old story about the alcoholic "curing" his morning after illness by consuming more alcohol (doing a "hair of the dog" routine). He remains alcoholic with all the problems that entails, none of which he has solved by continuing to consume yet more alcohol. Instead he is rapidly steering himself surely into bigger and bigger problems (for example, liver trouble or kidney trouble) from which he will not be able to recover.

By the way, the USD20-trillion is the tiniest piece of the looming problem. There is well over USD200-trillion of unfunded liabilities you guys have to figure out how to pay. The smart betting is that it can't be. Hence better get set for the biggest national default ever!

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:24 pm

By the way, the USD20-trillion is the tiniest piece of the looming problem. There is well over USD200-trillion of unfunded liabilities you guys have to figure out how to pay. The smart betting is that it can't be. Hence better get set for the biggest national default ever!
The US will never default. It has too many options that allow it to dodge default and pass losses on to the tax payers.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by pdq67 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:16 am

David Redszus wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:24 pm
By the way, the USD20-trillion is the tiniest piece of the looming problem. There is well over USD200-trillion of unfunded liabilities you guys have to figure out how to pay. The smart betting is that it can't be. Hence better get set for the biggest national default ever!
The US will never default. It has too many options that allow it to dodge default and pass losses on to the tax payers.
Taxpayers eating THEIR f**-up!

That's what I am afraid of.. Isn't this what destroys COUNTRIES???

THEY destroy the TAXPAYER and in the process, the COUNTRY get's DESTROYED!!

pdq67

PS, where did the color deal go? I always bold and color to make a point is all......

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:23 pm

That's what I am afraid of.. Isn't this what destroys COUNTRIES???

THEY destroy the TAXPAYER and in the process, the COUNTRY get's DESTROYED!!
No that does not destroy countries. Nations fail because they fail to fully utilized the natural and human resources of their citizens. But over taxation does go a long way to make the slope toward prosperity much steeper and harder to climb.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by pdq67 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:07 am

Well then, just what is happening to Greece right about now?

pdq67

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:24 am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatl ... le/514709/

"The deficit doesn't matter Regain proved that"
Dick Cheney

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:25 am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatl ... le/514709/

"The deficit doesn't matter Regain proved that"
Dick Cheney

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by pdq67 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:05 pm

Just go bird hunting with ol', "dickie-poo", and come back OK.

It's the 1st time that I ever heard of that you can shoot somebody on private property and John Law can't do anything about it so go figure....

Or am I wrong here??

pdq67

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:16 pm

pdq67 wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:05 pm
Just go bird hunting with ol', "dickie-poo", and come back OK.

It's the 1st time that I ever heard of that you can shoot somebody on private property and John Law can't do anything about it so go figure....

Or am I wrong here??

pdq67
As usual you are wrong again. Accidental shootings are pretty common, especially during hunting season. I've never heard if anybody facing charges unless there us neglect.

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