National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

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pdq67
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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by pdq67 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:04 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Did you try that already in November?

How's that working out for you now?"

S&S,

Why don't you go f** yourself, "shithead"!

pd167

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:17 pm

pdq67 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:04 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

S&S,

Why don't you go f** yourself, "shithead"!

pd167
Thats about the level of intelligence i expect from you. I think you sniffed one to many chemtrails... :lol:

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm

The national debt dollar amount alone is meaningless. What matters is the debt to GDP ratio, since a larger economy can handle a higher debt level.

The current debt to GDP ratio is 106%. That is far from its peak value which was 119% under FDR.
We recovered from that monstrosity and will recover from this one as well.

Trump does not and cannot initiate or pass spending bills. That is the job of congress. One performed very badly while Bush and Obuma were in office. The blame must be laid on congress and nowhere else.

The solution is to take the credit cards away. Slash taxes, veto spending and shut down the government if necessary. A massive tax cut will either reduce revenue, which will limit spending, or will raise revenue which can reduce debt. Either way the American people benefit. Except for those feeding at the public trough.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:22 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm
The national debt dollar amount alone is meaningless. What matters is the debt to GDP ratio, since a larger economy can handle a higher debt level.
Hmm..now that trump is president and debt is skyrocketing your stance on national debt has changed. Fascinating...
David Redszus wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:29 pm
The comparison of outstanding debt to GDP is misleading since debt includes many years of excessive spending. The more correct graphic would be a plot of govenment spending per year plotted against GDP and broken down by type of expense.
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:50 pm
Attack national debt - 18 trillion is a bit outrageous. Your great, great, great grand kids won't be able to pay it off.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:39 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:22 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm
The national debt dollar amount alone is meaningless. What matters is the debt to GDP ratio, since a larger economy can handle a higher debt level.
Hmm..now that trump is president and debt is skyrocketing your stance on national debt has changed. Fascinating...
David Redszus wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:29 pm
The comparison of outstanding debt to GDP is misleading since debt includes many years of excessive spending. The more correct graphic would be a plot of govenment spending per year plotted against GDP and broken down by type of expense.
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:50 pm
Attack national debt - 18 trillion is a bit outrageous. Your great, great, great grand kids won't be able to pay it off.
Everything I wrote back then is still true, Trump or no Trump. He has nothing to do with debt.
Congress is the problem and it is evident that Trump can't control congress...yet.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by sanfordandson » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:39 pm
Everything I wrote back then is still true, Trump or no Trump. He has nothing to do with debt.
Congress is the problem and it is evident that Trump can't control congress...yet.
You're not very good at lying. :^o :^o :^o

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:00 pm

sanfordandson wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:39 pm
Everything I wrote back then is still true, Trump or no Trump. He has nothing to do with debt.
Congress is the problem and it is evident that Trump can't control congress...yet.
You're not very good at lying. :^o :^o :^o
You're right, I'm not. You are the expert at lying.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by pdq67 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:52 am

Something about, "shithead", comes to mind here again!

pdq67

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by mk e » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:01 am

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm

Trump does not and cannot initiate or pass spending bills. That is the job of congress. One performed very badly while Bush and Obuma were in office. The blame must be laid on congress and nowhere else.
That's true, but it is the presidents job to set the national agenda and the president has the power to veto bad plans. Oblahblah encourage poor spending choices and didn't insist spending proposals came with funding proposals....he did a lot of harm. Rump's proposals are worse.

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm
The solution is to take the credit cards away. Slash taxes, veto spending and shut down the government if necessary. A massive tax cut will either reduce revenue, which will limit spending, or will raise revenue which can reduce debt. Either way the American people benefit. Except for those feeding at the public trough.
That is a great way the crash the economy for about a decade........
Mark
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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:15 am

David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:02 pm
The solution is to take the credit cards away. Slash taxes, veto spending and shut down the government if necessary. A massive tax cut will either reduce revenue, which will limit spending, or will raise revenue which can reduce debt. Either way the American people benefit. Except for those feeding at the public trough.

That is a great way the crash the economy for about a decade........
It seems to have worked for Kennedy and Reagan. The economy grew after tax cuts.
Current tax solutions have already crashed the economy for about a decade.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by mk e » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:17 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:15 am

It seems to have worked for Kennedy and Reagan. The economy grew after tax cuts.
Current tax solutions have already crashed the economy for about a decade.
You of all people should know the difference between correlation and causation. There is no evidence that tax cuts grow the economy, but lots of evidence that increased government spending does, as shown in the 2 cases you cite.
Mark
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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:41 pm

mk e wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:17 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:15 am

It seems to have worked for Kennedy and Reagan. The economy grew after tax cuts.
Current tax solutions have already crashed the economy for about a decade.
You of all people should know the difference between correlation and causation. There is no evidence that tax cuts grow the economy, but lots of evidence that increased government spending does, as shown in the 2 cases you cite.
That is completely wrong. Read Friedman and Keynes. Read about the Great Depression fiasco. Government spending does not grow the economy and never has.

Government spending takes money out of the economy in the form of taxes. What government spending does is stimulate certain parts of the economy at the expense of other parts. The best solution is to keep the government out of the economy; it can only screw things up.

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by mk e » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:03 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:41 pm

That is completely wrong. Read Friedman and Keynes. Read about the Great Depression fiasco. Government spending does not grow the economy and never has.

Government spending takes money out of the economy in the form of taxes. What government spending does is stimulate certain parts of the economy at the expense of other parts. The best solution is to keep the government out of the economy; it can only screw things up.
In the long term yes, but in the short term dpending borrowed money bumps the econo.y every time....hell we're seeing a little bump right now in anticipation of more decmfecit spending.

When you try to end the party and stop spending money you don't have people loss jobs and the economy tanks....and it takes about a decades to acclimate to the new normal. Its better in tge ling run, but it causes a lit of pain if its done abruptly.
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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by sanfordandson » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:10 pm

Not to get off topic but the debt is now 20.2 trillion and growing.

Go trump Go! =D>

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Re: National debt explodes, surpasses 20 trillion for the first time in history.

Post by David Redszus » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:27 am

mk e wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:03 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:41 pm

That is completely wrong. Read Friedman and Keynes. Read about the Great Depression fiasco. Government spending does not grow the economy and never has.

Government spending takes money out of the economy in the form of taxes. What government spending does is stimulate certain parts of the economy at the expense of other parts. The best solution is to keep the government out of the economy; it can only screw things up.
In the long term yes, but in the short term dpending borrowed money bumps the econo.y every time....hell we're seeing a little bump right now in anticipation of more decmfecit spending.

When you try to end the party and stop spending money you don't have people loss jobs and the economy tanks....and it takes about a decades to acclimate to the new normal. Its better in tge ling run, but it causes a lit of pain if its done abruptly.
Milton Friedman stated the best way to grow the economy was to give the public the freedom to choose.
His treatise on the Great Depression showed how government interference massively delayed economic recovery.

Maynard Keynes suggested that government save money for a rainy day (surplus) and then spend it when needed in order to level out dips in the economy. He was not trying to grow the economy but rather simply keep it level. He railed against the use of increased spending using taxes as being counter-productive. That would be like exceeding your credit card limits in order to boost your economy.

Or as my old boss used to say: "You can piss in the soup and you'll have more soup, but it will taste bad."

Ask Puerto Rico how well that works. Or any Democrap.

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