Another day, another health care bill failure...

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1989TransAm
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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby 1989TransAm » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:09 pm

Now it is California with premium increases 12.5%. State after state this is happening. This Obamacare disaster is imploding right before out eyes.

"Covered California announced this week that its 2018 rates will increase about eight times faster than the rate of inflation, as the Obamacare law and the state’s liberal legislature continue to destroy private insurance in California.
Despite the latest United States Department of Labor Consumer Price Index for the month of June estimating that inflation rose by only 1.6 percent over the last twelve months, Covered California, Obamacare for the state, just announced that the average health insurance premiums on the California insurance exchanges would rise by 12.5 percent, or about 7.81 times faster than the rate of inflation.
Covered California’s spiking prices are actually a relative bargain compared to the even worse Obamacare price increases insurers are about to extract across the rest of the nation. The Wall Street Journal recently reported that “big insurers in Idaho, West Virginia, South Carolina, Iowa, and Wyoming are seeking to raise premiums by 30 percent or more.”

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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby mk e » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:37 pm

1989TransAm wrote:Now it is California with premium increases 12.5%. .


That is in line with the increase in healthcare costs so? your point is no Oblahblahcare issue in CA????
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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby 1989TransAm » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:44 pm

mk e wrote:
1989TransAm wrote:Now it is California with premium increases 12.5%. .


That is in line with the increase in healthcare costs so? your point is no Oblahblahcare issue in CA????


A 12.5% increase will be a burden on a lot of people if not most. I would expect more drop outs.

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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby mk e » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:20 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
A 12.5% increase will be a burden on a lot of people if not most. I would expect more drop outs.


It is. We treat at any cost here. It doesn't improve outcome very much, but it does help a little so we do it and it's expensive.
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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby Firedome8 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:55 pm

Why such a increase ? What are the mechanisms that drive this trend ??? Inflation is less than 3% ,,,are the insurance companies making a profit?

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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby mk e » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:56 am

Firedome8 wrote:Why such a increase ? What are the mechanisms that drive this trend ??? Inflation is less than 3% ,,,are the insurance companies making a profit?


its nothing to do with insurance companies, this is the cost of care going up which is different from the cost of insurance premiums. The cost of care is just 1 factor in premium prices.

The cost of care is driven by several factors
A payer in the US is liability laws which have 2 impacts. First is it forces the doctor to perform any treatment that might help, often it probably won't help but it there is a chance not trying opens him/her up to a neglegence suit so people get a lot of procedures and pills they probably don't need. The second part affects my world and is if anyhting goes wrong and we can't show we've done EVERYTHING possible to predict and prevent failures then we get sued which forces us to test and retest everything what what seem like rediculous scenarios and that costs money that needs to be added to the product cost.

Regulations are a double edge sword. In a lot of ways having them helps sheild the industry from liability...."hey, we meet all the requirements and the product is approved by the FDA". On the other hand FDA and EU regs don't match very well which means double the word and in the last...10 years the EU has required that we must meet the CURRENT version of the specification and FDA is moving that way. Inpast once a product was approved there was no more to do other than sell it, but now testing needs to be repeated anytime a standar chances or new standard is created and thats expensive not only for the testing but also to track and monitor, we do anual reviews and regulator group size has increased 2-3x in the past 10 years to handle that....but there are also requirements to document all the specifications, procurues and testing in great detail and a new or revised standard meeting new or revised specifications and all the documentation needs to be updated...so engineering and QA groups have also grown 2-3x. Products are safer probably, but that's a lot of cost that has to go somewhere.

New treatments come out everyday. I worked for years in the endovarcular space (treatments for blocked arteries) and that went from surgery that most people who were sick enough to need it were too sick to have it, to angeoplasty wiht a $500 balloon catheter that anyone could have but it was only about 25-50% effective, then stents came along at $1000-$1500 that go in after an angeoplastly (not instead, you get both) and this got to nearly 100% effective so everyone with the problem got it.....but then over 2-10 years it would plug back up and need re-treatment so drug eluding stents came out at about $2500 to help with this. This was all for the heart, but once the heart was fixed so you didn't die of a heart attack and the vessels in your neck (think stroke), vessels to main organs and vessels in your legs plug up....most people now get 6-12 procedures, each costing about $20k-$50k where 30 years ago they got none and that is just the endovascular stuff, they are treated for all kinds of other stuff too...the last 2-5 years of life are really expensive.

Personal heath. The US is getting very fat and and generally unhealthy which means more and more people need more and more treatment. The US healthcare system does a fantastic job helping us live a long life in spite of us working hard everyday to kill ourselves, and I'm as guilty as anyone.....but there is a very real healthcare cost for the life style choice we make.

Sorry it was long, but its not a simple thing you asked....and it can't be solved by a wave of anyone's hand no matter how loudly they claim it's simple and will be fixed on day 1.
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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby Firedome8 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:38 am

Who thought it would be so complicated?

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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby mk e » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:16 am

Firedome8 wrote:Who thought it would be so complicated?


Exactly......
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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby engineczar » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:10 am

One thing you didn't include in your list is suddenly adding a whole lot of people into the system who had pre-existing conditions. Not saying that's a bad thing for the people who are in that situation but that cost is huge. I believe the intention was to have young and healthy people cover the cost but that hasn't really panned out.

Imagine what that would do to the auto insurance industry if you didn't have auto insurance, totaled your car, and could sign up after the fact.

One of the problems that was occurring in Massachusetts was that people would rather pay the penalty than carry the mandatory insurance. Then if needed would sign up because they couldn't be refused for pre-existing conditions.

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Re: Another day, another health care bill failure...

Postby mk e » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:34 am

engineczar wrote:One thing you didn't include in your list is suddenly adding a whole lot of people into the system who had pre-existing conditions. Not saying that's a bad thing for the people who are in


Yeah...i'm not sure about the numbers on that....costs were going up 6-8% before 2010...so some or all the difference might go to the new people, many sick, that are now accessing care....i don't know.

Also I should have included that the population is aging...that goes into that 6-8% pre 2010 number somewhere.

engineczar wrote:One of the problems that was occurring in Massachusetts was that people would rather pay the penalty than carry the mandatory insurance. Then if needed would sign up because they couldn't be refused for pre-existing conditions.


Yes. I HATE the perso nal mandate and the penalty is nowhere big enough to actually make people buy antway.....but something is required. The Senate plan had a you don't need to but but if you change your mind you pay through the nose when you do buy feature...that might work. Or beef up the mandate to if you don't buy on your own then the cheaper plan in your exchange is purchased for you and added to your tax bill. Something so its not just sick people buying insurance.
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