Firedome8 wrote: Fireonthemountain wrote:
But the problem is Thomas Paine did believe in a God...
I believe in the possibility of a God ,,,just no proof. And I think Mr Payne was a bit smarter than me.
I get ya you are by definition an agnostic, which is not the same as an atheist, which denies period. Paine and most of the founders of this country were Deists also called Deism. This is where the modern concept of this being a "Christian country" falls apart. It was their belief any ruling religion was bad, as had been seen with Protestant countries and Catholic countries rulings. No matter the religion it never seems to work out for all and evil comes out of their rule.
Going from where you are now to believing requires no proof, but it does require broad study, experience, and logic. Proof and beliefs do no mix and never will, and that why facts do not change beliefs. Btw, most beliefs come out of childhood and may or may not serve us and may or may not be correct A little on beliefshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEStIACmjNEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpIzWjslIaQ
Now this is a major problem, for you and most, because you do not understand this and what are the hidden beliefs inside of you that will harm you in life and may harm others. I would suggest you go to Ebay and get the Tony Robbins "Personnel Power" tapes or CDs, and listen and learn. 12 cassette tapes or 24 days, or 24 CDs. I like the tapes best LOL
Now how did I get to believing from agnostic. Well after searching, for the fun of it different concepts and histories and ideas over about 8 years from my late teens I saw a movie on TV. Back then there was not a lot to do and watch on TV, and no internet. The movie was called the Greatest Story Ever Told, which is just a retelling about the Christ story.
But what was difference was my age and experience by then, and even though I was raised in a Church this was way different, because I got to hear what he said, and not what some religion or man said, and I agreed with 98% of what he said and it is quite "radical" then or now. It was also quite different from the way people and people made churches saw things then or now. But how did he know this 2000 years ago....On the 2% I did not understand and agree with I decided to obey them as well in case he was right, until I could understand the why. And I finally did a few years later.
But there are no facts support this, and in the same way no facts that alter this and my research has been fairly thorough and ongoing, for 40 years since then. And our reality is not as it seems, as he pointed out or tried to, to his dunce disciples.
Just treat all the way you want to be treated, if you were in their shoes, or treat all as though it was him. And believe that death is just a really bad joke or illusion. Its like in the movie Highlander, where Sean Connery tells MacLeod, to face it you can't die
Science also btw is full of "beliefs" that change over time.