Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

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Firedome8
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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:30 pm


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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by 1989TransAm » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:32 pm

John Wallace wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:47 pm
and a leader who is addicted to socialist policies that enrich himself and his cronies
This is socialist policies?

:?:
John, I guess you are not familiar with the "elite" class of socialists.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by 1989TransAm » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:33 pm

" According to the New York Times" :D

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:43 pm

1989TransAm wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:33 pm
" According to the New York Times" :D
Could be wrong...

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by 86_regal » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:38 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:21 am
j-c-c wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:52 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:47 am


Like corporate welfare..
Crony Capitalism

cro·ny cap·i·tal·ism
noun DEROGATORY
an economic system characterized by close, mutually advantageous relationships between business leaders and government officials.
crony socialism
an economic system characterized by close, mutually advantageous relationships between business leaders and government officials.
The term "crony capitalism" was hijacked by the early 20th century progressive left, presumably with the intent of tacitly disparaging ANYTHING having an association with capitalism for, you guessed it, greater federal government control.
It's "modified" definition has been so engrained in our vernacular that even the most ardent, die hard, right wing free marketers use it this way, which has served to be one of my biggest pet peaves.

While I would tend to ascribe more veracity to David's term defining such activity as "crony socialism", I believe it's still a little off the mark.

If someone, ANYONE, from a lobbyist group representing Bechtel Corp to the collective "voice" of AntiFA "contributed" to a political campaign to Unconstitutionally (read: illegally) scribble into the morass of a 1500 page HR bill, a sizable grant or subsidy for them at the expense of the rest of the taxpayer base could be described as anything other than GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION...?

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by j-c-c » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:32 pm

" presumably with the intent of tacitly disparaging ANYTHING having an association with capitalism for,"

Did you leave anything out there in your presumption of intent? #-o

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by 86_regal » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:31 pm

j-c-c wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:32 pm
" presumably with the intent of tacitly disparaging ANYTHING having an association with capitalism for,"

Did you leave anything out there in your presumption of intent? #-o
I guess you're going to have to clarify. Do you think the passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 AND the 16th Amendment Ratification of the Income Tax during the Progressive Era was a way to make our government smaller and LESS powerful???

That the Federal Reserve Act IS NOT a blatant "act" of collusion with the LARGEST PRIVATE banking institution in the WORLD, in the name of "regulating greedy Bankers & Corporate fat cats, AKA Evil Capitalists/Capitalism"???

That the Income Tax Amendment would NOT be used as a bargaining chip for the political class to be "influenced" by those with the means in the name of "Assuring the rich, AKA Evil Capitalists, pay their fair share"???

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:44 pm

Wyoming recently enacted a law that forces utilities seeking to shut down unprofitable coal plants to try to sell them first, and then to buy back the power from the new owner, even if cheaper power is available.

Shutting down these coal plants and replacing them with cheaper sources, all of which produce cleaner power, would save ratepayers tens of millions of dollars a year. But state Republicans want to artificially prop up these plants, regardless of the economic reality, while their party leaders in Washington have been characterizing Democratic efforts to speed up clean energy deployment to save a livable climate as “socialism.”

Wyoming isn’t alone; Republican lawmakers in Montana are pursuing similar legislation. And for the past two years, as coal continues its steady decline, the Trump administration has pushed multiple efforts to force utilities to keep money-losing coal plants open.

Oh joy.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by pdq67 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:00 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:44 pm
Wyoming recently enacted a law that forces utilities seeking to shut down unprofitable coal plants to try to sell them first, and then to buy back the power from the new owner, even if cheaper power is available.

Shutting down these coal plants and replacing them with cheaper sources, all of which produce cleaner power, would save ratepayers tens of millions of dollars a year. But state Republicans want to artificially prop up these plants, regardless of the economic reality, while their party leaders in Washington have been characterizing Democratic efforts to speed up clean energy deployment to save a livable climate as “socialism.”

Wyoming isn’t alone; Republican lawmakers in Montana are pursuing similar legislation. And for the past two years, as coal continues its steady decline, the Trump administration has pushed multiple efforts to force utilities to keep money-losing coal plants open.

Oh joy.
THEY get in a back room and sit around figuring out how to fu*k the rest of us as THEY get rich!

AND as George C. says, "We ain't in the CLUB!!".....

Back in about 1970 or so when the CAA was made Law there was gentleman's agreement, handshake and all, between the coal-fired power producers and EPA such that the power plants were supposed to be cleaned up!

And they lied to the EPA and it took the enactment of the CAAA of I think 1990 to get it done and it started to be done like in 2000 or even some later!

Talk about a fu*kin, "dog and pony/smoke and mirrors", buying of politicians!!

I wrote Air Law for like almost 12 years so know a bit about this!!

pdq67

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:51 am

pdq67 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:00 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:44 pm
Wyoming recently enacted a law that forces utilities seeking to shut down unprofitable coal plants to try to sell them first, and then to buy back the power from the new owner, even if cheaper power is available.

Shutting down these coal plants and replacing them with cheaper sources, all of which produce cleaner power, would save ratepayers tens of millions of dollars a year. But state Republicans want to artificially prop up these plants, regardless of the economic reality, while their party leaders in Washington have been characterizing Democratic efforts to speed up clean energy deployment to save a livable climate as “socialism.”

Wyoming isn’t alone; Republican lawmakers in Montana are pursuing similar legislation. And for the past two years, as coal continues its steady decline, the Trump administration has pushed multiple efforts to force utilities to keep money-losing coal plants open.

Oh joy.
THEY get in a back room and sit around figuring out how to fu*k the rest of us as THEY get rich!

AND as George C. says, "We ain't in the CLUB!!".....

Back in about 1970 or so when the CAA was made Law there was gentleman's agreement, handshake and all, between the coal-fired power producers and EPA such that the power plants were supposed to be cleaned up!

And they lied to the EPA and it took the enactment of the CAAA of I think 1990 to get it done and it started to be done like in 2000 or even some later!

Talk about a fu*kin, "dog and pony/smoke and mirrors", buying of politicians!!

I wrote Air Law for like almost 12 years so know a bit about this!!

pdq67
"They" being the right wing hypocrisy of the GOP nutters that tell you how bad socialism is and then practice it in full view.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by TrOll » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:26 am

Firedome8 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:51 am
pdq67 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:00 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:44 pm
Wyoming recently enacted a law that forces utilities seeking to shut down unprofitable coal plants to try to sell them first, and then to buy back the power from the new owner, even if cheaper power is available.

Shutting down these coal plants and replacing them with cheaper sources, all of which produce cleaner power, would save ratepayers tens of millions of dollars a year. But state Republicans want to artificially prop up these plants, regardless of the economic reality, while their party leaders in Washington have been characterizing Democratic efforts to speed up clean energy deployment to save a livable climate as “socialism.”

Wyoming isn’t alone; Republican lawmakers in Montana are pursuing similar legislation. And for the past two years, as coal continues its steady decline, the Trump administration has pushed multiple efforts to force utilities to keep money-losing coal plants open.

Oh joy.
THEY get in a back room and sit around figuring out how to fu*k the rest of us as THEY get rich!

AND as George C. says, "We ain't in the CLUB!!".....

Back in about 1970 or so when the CAA was made Law there was gentleman's agreement, handshake and all, between the coal-fired power producers and EPA such that the power plants were supposed to be cleaned up!

And they lied to the EPA and it took the enactment of the CAAA of I think 1990 to get it done and it started to be done like in 2000 or even some later!

Talk about a fu*kin, "dog and pony/smoke and mirrors", buying of politicians!!

I wrote Air Law for like almost 12 years so know a bit about this!!

pdq67
"They" being the right wing hypocrisy of the GOP nutters that tell you how bad socialism is and then practice it in full view.
Hey shit for brains, if socialism is so good, why don't you move your dumb ass to venezuela and practice it there with maduro! Start a go fund me page and I'll donate the first $100 to help make that happen.
Never forget that "FAST" is relative!

Concern yourself only with being the best that YOU can be without regard to what others may think!

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:13 am

TrOll wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:26 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:51 am
pdq67 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:00 pm


THEY get in a back room and sit around figuring out how to fu*k the rest of us as THEY get rich!

AND as George C. says, "We ain't in the CLUB!!".....

Back in about 1970 or so when the CAA was made Law there was gentleman's agreement, handshake and all, between the coal-fired power producers and EPA such that the power plants were supposed to be cleaned up!

And they lied to the EPA and it took the enactment of the CAAA of I think 1990 to get it done and it started to be done like in 2000 or even some later!

Talk about a fu*kin, "dog and pony/smoke and mirrors", buying of politicians!!

I wrote Air Law for like almost 12 years so know a bit about this!!

pdq67
"They" being the right wing hypocrisy of the GOP nutters that tell you how bad socialism is and then practice it in full view.
Hey shit for brains, if socialism is so good, why don't you move your dumb ass to venezuela and practice it there with maduro! Start a go fund me page and I'll donate the first $100 to help make that happen.
You sir do not know what socialism is. It is not a black or white proposition. Social Security Medicare and propping up certian corporations are socialism, and to not know that in this day and age of information can not be attributed to ignorance. And ill ask you , did you support the invasion of iraq? Do you think hillery Clinton sold 20% of our uranium to russia? Do you think the noahs ark story is historical?

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by j-c-c » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:51 pm

TrOll wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:26 am
Firedome8 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:51 am
pdq67 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:00 pm


THEY get in a back room and sit around figuring out how to fu*k the rest of us as THEY get rich!

AND as George C. says, "We ain't in the CLUB!!".....

Back in about 1970 or so when the CAA was made Law there was gentleman's agreement, handshake and all, between the coal-fired power producers and EPA such that the power plants were supposed to be cleaned up!

And they lied to the EPA and it took the enactment of the CAAA of I think 1990 to get it done and it started to be done like in 2000 or even some later!

Talk about a fu*kin, "dog and pony/smoke and mirrors", buying of politicians!!

I wrote Air Law for like almost 12 years so know a bit about this!!

pdq67
Ve

"They" being the right wing hypocrisy of the GOP nutters that tell you how bad socialism is and then practice it in full view.
Hey shit for brains, if socialism is so good, why don't you move your dumb ass to venezuela and practice it there with maduro! Start a go fund me page and I'll donate the first $100 to help make that happen.

Venezuela is such a silly "example" of socialism , decades ago the country was one of the largest working democracies in SA. Thru a lot of legal outside the guardrails political tricks, the country slowly morphed into a dictatorship, often under the guise of "socialism", and I love making ( :lol: ) this next point, kinda how the Nazi's tricked the masses they were socialists in the beginning of their reign, in Venezuela to maintain legality, they packed their supreme court with loyalists, and all the rulings were guess, in who's favor?

Lack of accountability never has a good outcome, no matter what banner you think you are living under.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by David Redszus » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:06 pm

If someone, ANYONE, from a lobbyist group representing Bechtel Corp to the collective "voice" of AntiFA "contributed" to a political campaign to Unconstitutionally (read: illegally) scribble into the morass of a 1500 page HR bill, a sizable grant or subsidy for them at the expense of the rest of the taxpayer base could be described as anything other than GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION...?
Not so fast. Our system of government allows ANYONE to contribute to a political cause, to attempt to influence lawmaking, to write self serving regulations is valid and acceptable, as long as no laws are broken.

Each entity has the right to pursue their own self interest and not be overly concerned about the impact upon other groups.
Each self interested group has the same opportunity to influence the process.

The alternative would be to allow an elite core of politicians to decide for the various areas of the country, what is in their best interest. An impossible task; NO ONE is smart enough to know what is best for everyone.

Corruption must be limited to unlawful activity, not to greed, directed benefit, self-interest, or favoritism.
If an activity is legal but wrong, change the law. Otherwise...live with it.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:23 am

Question: Hi Senator Sanders, so my father’s family left Soviet Russia in 1979 fleeing from the same socialist policies you seem eager to put in this country. How do you rectify it with the failures of socialism in every country that has tried it?

Sanders: Thank you for that question. Is it your assumption that I believed in authoritarian communism that was in the Soviet Union? I haven’t, and I opposed it. I believe in a vigorous policy. You asked me about democratic socialism. Fair question, and let me answer it.

I happen to believe that in the United States there is something fundamentally wrong when we have three families owning more wealth than the bottom half of American society: 160 million people. Something wrong when the top 1 percent owns more wealth than the bottom 92 percent. Something very wrong when 49 percent of all new income today is going to the top 1 percent.

And something is equally wrong when we have a corrupt political system made worse by this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision that allows billionaires to spend unlimited sums of money to elect candidates that represent the wealthy. So answer number one, it’s a radical idea. Maybe not everybody agrees but I happen to believe we should have a government that represents working families and not just the 1 percent and powerful corporations. That’s point number one.

Point number two, what do I mean when I talk about democratic socialism? It’s certainly not the authoritarian communism that existed in the Soviet Union. This is what it means. It means that we cherish among other things our bill of rights. Franklin Roosevelt made this point. In 1944 in a State of the Union address that never got a lot of attention, this is what he said basically. A very profound speech. He said we got a great Constitution. Bill of Rights protects your freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, but it doesn’t protect and guarantee you economic rights.

So let me be honest with you, I believe in a democratic civilized society health care is a human right. Government should make that happen. I believe that every young person in this country regardless of his or her income has the right to get all the education they need.

That’s why I have fought hard with some success to move toward making public colleges and universities tuition free and very substantially reduce student debt. And I believe there’s something wrong when you have millions of families paying 40 or 50 percent of their limited incomes to put a roof over their heads and that millions of working class families, young parents cannot find quality and affordable child care.

So we have to address the very, very rich getting richer and middle class struggling and 40 million living in poverty. It means to me that we expand Medicare and provide educational opportunity for all Americans. We rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. In other words, government serves the needs of all people rather than just wealthy campaign contributors. That’s what it means to me.

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