Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

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David Redszus
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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by David Redszus » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:16 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:32 am
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:13 am
So...does Socialism produce joy or does it reduce joy?

What is the evidence?
We have many socialist systems that work alongside many private capitalist systems. Many of them are quite popular too.

Examples include:

public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't. Medicare helps seniors as well.
Shouldn't we make a clear distinction between social programs and a socialist form of government?

What you have listed are social programs which can be changed by local citizens. That is far different than socialism as practiced by Russia, Cuba, Maoist China and other failures, where the people have no say in the matter.

The real issue revolves around whether or not the individual has the right to act as they see fit or are directed by government.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by lefty o » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:05 pm
TrOll wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:28 am
Way to go dumbass!! Two posts in a row that are COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC for this thread? And on top of that both were a "copy and paste" from main fake news articles posted somewhere else on the internet? :shock: No quotations, no links and not even a hit that someone else wrote them? [-X Is that the only way you can post something with correct grammar and spelling? #-o Is that all you've got? :^o Pathetic!
BS you are to dence to see the connection. Not my fault.
I am betting you suffer from sky god delusions.
food for thought. if you are going to call someone DENSE, you might want to be able to spell it! otherwise, you look like a dumbass! :roll:

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by GRTfast » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:31 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:16 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:32 am
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:13 am
So...does Socialism produce joy or does it reduce joy?

What is the evidence?
We have many socialist systems that work alongside many private capitalist systems. Many of them are quite popular too.

Examples include:

public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't. Medicare helps seniors as well.
Shouldn't we make a clear distinction between social programs and a socialist form of government?

What you have listed are social programs which can be changed by local citizens. That is far different than socialism as practiced by Russia, Cuba, Maoist China and other failures, where the people have no say in the matter.

The real issue revolves around whether or not the individual has the right to act as they see fit or are directed by government.
The Nordic model is far different from the likes of Russia, Cuba, etc.. in that is has a massive safety nets and programs for the public that are provided by the government (welfare, free healthcare, free education, etc..), while maintaining a high level of market freedom. I'm not advocating for this model, I'm just pointing out that there are different types of socialist philosophies that appear to have drastically different outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by David Redszus » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:31 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:16 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:32 am


We have many socialist systems that work alongside many private capitalist systems. Many of them are quite popular too.

Examples include:

public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s;
public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores;
public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms;
public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today;
public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
municipal power is in many towns, akin to the TVA. My old hometown had a company run by the town, with rates about 2/3 what you'd expect from the nearby private power companies in neighboring cities and towns--also lower downtime and better service, despite more inclement weather; and
Social Security, which is socialism for seniors. Who can still work for extra money if they must, but won't be totally destitute if they don't. Medicare helps seniors as well.
Shouldn't we make a clear distinction between social programs and a socialist form of government?

What you have listed are social programs which can be changed by local citizens. That is far different than socialism as practiced by Russia, Cuba, Maoist China and other failures, where the people have no say in the matter.

The real issue revolves around whether or not the individual has the right to act as they see fit or are directed by government.
The Nordic model is far different from the likes of Russia, Cuba, etc.. in that is has a massive safety nets and programs for the public that are provided by the government (welfare, free healthcare, free education, etc..), while maintaining a high level of market freedom. I'm not advocating for this model, I'm just pointing out that there are different types of socialist philosophies that appear to have drastically different outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Provided by the government? Pure nonsense. The government provides nothing; it merely redistributes as it wishes.
The poor Swedes suffer from massively high taxes (a 25% VAT); the highest tax burden falls on the middle and lower class.
Overall it is a poor economic model and that fact is being recognized and slowly being changed.

It is far different than Cuba. Cuba has nothing to tax.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by GRTfast » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:09 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:31 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:16 pm

Shouldn't we make a clear distinction between social programs and a socialist form of government?

What you have listed are social programs which can be changed by local citizens. That is far different than socialism as practiced by Russia, Cuba, Maoist China and other failures, where the people have no say in the matter.

The real issue revolves around whether or not the individual has the right to act as they see fit or are directed by government.
The Nordic model is far different from the likes of Russia, Cuba, etc.. in that is has a massive safety nets and programs for the public that are provided by the government (welfare, free healthcare, free education, etc..), while maintaining a high level of market freedom. I'm not advocating for this model, I'm just pointing out that there are different types of socialist philosophies that appear to have drastically different outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Provided by the government? Pure nonsense. The government provides nothing; it merely redistributes as it wishes.
The poor Swedes suffer from massively high taxes (a 25% VAT); the highest tax burden falls on the middle and lower class.
Overall it is a poor economic model and that fact is being recognized and slowly being changed.

It is far different than Cuba. Cuba has nothing to tax.
Obviously that’s what I meant. The government taxes the people and uses that money for the services provided. I agree that it’s not ideal. The ironic part is, those populations consistently rank as some of the healthiest, happiest, and longest lived on earth.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by David Redszus » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:40 am

GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:09 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:31 pm


The Nordic model is far different from the likes of Russia, Cuba, etc.. in that is has a massive safety nets and programs for the public that are provided by the government (welfare, free healthcare, free education, etc..), while maintaining a high level of market freedom. I'm not advocating for this model, I'm just pointing out that there are different types of socialist philosophies that appear to have drastically different outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Provided by the government? Pure nonsense. The government provides nothing; it merely redistributes as it wishes.
The poor Swedes suffer from massively high taxes (a 25% VAT); the highest tax burden falls on the middle and lower class.
Overall it is a poor economic model and that fact is being recognized and slowly being changed.

It is far different than Cuba. Cuba has nothing to tax.
Obviously that’s what I meant. The government taxes the people and uses that money for the services provided. I agree that it’s not ideal. The ironic part is, those populations consistently rank as some of the healthiest, happiest, and longest lived on earth.
Which I suppose, is why they very often try to escape from their paradise and come to the US.
healthiest, happiest, and longest lived on earth.
Now those are some statistics I would really like to examine. Who took those? Snowflake sociology students? Please show us the data.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by RevTheory » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:27 am

lefty o wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:05 pm
TrOll wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:28 am
Way to go dumbass!! Two posts in a row that are COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC for this thread? And on top of that both were a "copy and paste" from main fake news articles posted somewhere else on the internet? :shock: No quotations, no links and not even a hit that someone else wrote them? [-X Is that the only way you can post something with correct grammar and spelling? #-o Is that all you've got? :^o Pathetic!
BS you are to dence to see the connection. Not my fault.
I am betting you suffer from sky god delusions.
food for thought. if you are going to call someone DENSE, you might want to be able to spell it! otherwise, you look like a dumbass! :roll:
For sure! You can tell when chromedome is plagiarizing other's crap because it'll be spelled right without some rambling, nonsense point that you have to look for.

He was a link warrior for months but now he barely posts one and instead does the copy/paste deal. The source and entire article are left out for obvious reasons but he still thinks he's making a point.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by GRTfast » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:07 am

David Redszus wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:40 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:09 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Provided by the government? Pure nonsense. The government provides nothing; it merely redistributes as it wishes.
The poor Swedes suffer from massively high taxes (a 25% VAT); the highest tax burden falls on the middle and lower class.
Overall it is a poor economic model and that fact is being recognized and slowly being changed.

It is far different than Cuba. Cuba has nothing to tax.
Obviously that’s what I meant. The government taxes the people and uses that money for the services provided. I agree that it’s not ideal. The ironic part is, those populations consistently rank as some of the healthiest, happiest, and longest lived on earth.
Which I suppose, is why they very often try to escape from their paradise and come to the US.
healthiest, happiest, and longest lived on earth.
Now those are some statistics I would really like to examine. Who took those? Snowflake sociology students? Please show us the data.
http://worldhappiness.report/ed/2018/

take it for what it's worth, I'm not claiming to support or buy into it. It is interesting though if you read all of it. The list in chapter 2 doesn't seem completely unreasonable.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by David Redszus » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:09 pm

GRTfast wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:07 am
David Redszus wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:40 am
GRTfast wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:09 pm


Obviously that’s what I meant. The government taxes the people and uses that money for the services provided. I agree that it’s not ideal. The ironic part is, those populations consistently rank as some of the healthiest, happiest, and longest lived on earth.
Which I suppose, is why they very often try to escape from their paradise and come to the US.
healthiest, happiest, and longest lived on earth.
Now those are some statistics I would really like to examine. Who took those? Snowflake sociology students? Please show us the data.
http://worldhappiness.report/ed/2018/

take it for what it's worth, I'm not claiming to support or buy into it. It is interesting though if you read all of it. The list in chapter 2 doesn't seem completely unreasonable.
Thank you for posting that study. It makes for interesting reading.

One point of interest is that the highest target for immigration is North America. The lowest source for emigration is also North America. Seems like all those happy people want to get into North American and very few choose to leave. :lol:

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:46 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:27 am
lefty o wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:05 pm


BS you are to dence to see the connection. Not my fault.
I am betting you suffer from sky god delusions.
food for thought. if you are going to call someone DENSE, you might want to be able to spell it! otherwise, you look like a dumbass! :roll:
For sure! You can tell when chromedome is plagiarizing other's crap because it'll be spelled right without some rambling, nonsense point that you have to look for.

He was a link warrior for months but now he barely posts one and instead does the copy/paste deal. The source and entire article are left out for obvious reasons but he still thinks he's making a point.
It is simply over your head.

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Ken0069 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:06 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:27 am
For sure! You can tell when chromedome is plagiarizing other's crap because it'll be spelled right without some rambling, nonsense point that you have to look for.

He was a link warrior for months but now he barely posts one and instead does the copy/paste deal. The source and entire article are left out for obvious reasons but he still thinks he's making a point.
HE'S A PAID INTERNET TROLL AND ONLY IN HERE FOR A PAYCHECK from that piece of shit soros!!! It's also likely that his "handlers" called him on the link thingie, hence now he's copy and pasting a journalist's work without giving them credit, which is copyright infringement.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by RevTheory » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:18 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:46 pm

It is simply over your head.
I'm sure that's the case. Was "thair" a point or concept "witch" I overlooked?

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:44 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:18 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:46 pm

It is simply over your head.
I'm sure that's the case. Was "thair" a point or concept "witch" I overlooked?
Thanks for the confirmation

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by RevTheory » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:27 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:44 pm
RevTheory wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:18 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:46 pm

It is simply over your head.
I'm sure that's the case. Was "thair" a point or concept "witch" I overlooked?
Thanks for the confirmation
Well that was pithy (have j-c-c google it for you). You know we laugh at you, right?

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Re: Oh The Joys Of Socialism..................NOT!

Post by Firedome8 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:44 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:27 pm
Firedome8 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:44 pm
RevTheory wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:18 pm


I'm sure that's the case. Was "thair" a point or concept "witch" I overlooked?
Thanks for the confirmation
Well that was pithy (have j-c-c google it for you). You know we laugh at you, right?
I laugh at you sky god despot worshiping nutters.
Care to debate how that affects your worldview and your trump idol syndrome. Try out Mark 16:17-18 tell how you make out ,,, unless your belief system is based on delusion and shows up in your worldview. Or is it that you are not a true believer.
Last edited by Firedome8 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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