A question about so called higher education

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Zmechanic
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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby Zmechanic » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:51 pm

exhaustgases wrote:And how come so far most I seem to come in contact with a degree, really don't know much? I really expect better for all that time spent striving for that degree.


Most of the people I hear saying stuff like this are either 1) Only citing very non-technical degrees 2) Dismissing the very foundational technical knowledge gained by a degree as not being "common sense" or unnecessary. 3) Comparing a careers worth of hands on experience with 4 years of learning abstract theory.

Yes, you can graduate with a 4-year degree in liberal arts. You will not have learned much, if any, knowledge you can immediately put to use in a practical sense. You will pass the "did you goto college" first level screen that seems to be a thing with many employers these days (which I think is crap for a lot of jobs, tbh).

Lastly, if you can't handle considering someone else's viewpoints and trying to open your mind to learning, you don't belong in college anyway. Some people don't. My brother couldn't stand the idea of one person claiming themselves to be an absolute authority teaching to everyone. It drove him crazy. He didn't finish. He is very VERY smart, and when we were younger scored higher than me in all the standard achievement tests (ACT/SAT). I had plenty of people in my time that I could tell were self-absorbed tools. But I tell you one thing, there wasn't a single class where I didn't learn at least something.

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby mk e » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:45 pm

Zmechanic wrote:. But I tell you one thing, there wasn't a single class where I didn't learn at least something.


Same here.

I took an anthropology class sort of by mistake that has prove invaluable in helping me think about how to get the feedback i need to improve product function and design.....some times its good to look at problems from different perspectives
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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby Speedbump » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:35 pm

"One issue is they teach this that etc but dont teach you how to think."

Most of the people replying negatively here don't want to know how to think or problem solve plus they're making a judgment on something they've never done. Thinking/problem solving skills require practice. That practice starts and is developed by someone challenging you with an idea that you are not necessarily willing to accept. If you dismiss it as "educated jibberish", you have learned nothing. If you force yourself to find a path of possibly accepting the idea through rational deduction, even if it's for a grade, you have expanded your thought base. I also had an anthropology experience I remember to this day.
By the way, I AM a retired vocational teacher and my students learned, in addition to some factual automotive info, how to solve problems and how to take tests using the same approach. The most difficult students were always the ones whose father had already taught them all they needed to know about automobiles and engines, etc.
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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby pdq67 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:24 pm

What tripped me over to go back to school to earn my BSME degree was that I finally figured out that we couldn't make the f** NIGGERS work!

I was working on the old N&W RR traveling tie gang and was making like twice what my shit-head friends back in town were making. But I was gone the whole f** week so they didn't have a clue what I was doing to make my money! Talk about f** dog tired work!!

Try moving RR ties and driving RR spikes all day long in 100+ to -12 below temps for your job................

Us kids up in Runnells, IA got fed up with this crap and jumped the Ass. Foreman and old Windy Gregory said that there was a time when we could make them work, but since EEOC or whatever it is, killed that.

He said that at a time when a nigger came out asking for work, the Foreman beat his ass off and then if he still wanted to work, put him on the gang! No more now!! Way before the mid '60's!!!

And to this day, I can drive a RR spike with a dull pick!! Damned near 70 Years old to boot..

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby exhaustgases » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:54 pm

I work with quite a few younger engineers, and they may know how to work cad, but when its the real world they are a bit lacking. I think back in the old days it was all more of a hands on type of deal.

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby machinedave » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:30 pm

A few years ago I ran into the automotive machinist instructor at a technical college and told him I had taken the course 20 years ago and asked how the students were doing and he said that the students could run all the CNC boring/surfacing equipment but they didn't know what the four engine strokes were. He incorrectly assumed that most people taking the class would know that already. He went out and got a portable boring bar and a Sunnen hone and drill and made them get a feel for it so they knew why they were doing it instead of just how to do it.

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby pdq67 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:04 pm

Yes, right!!

Let them drive RR spikes for a month or two by hand using a 10 pound spike maul.

At like in July and August here in the Midwest..................

Doing so will cut your mind in real fast!!

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby MrBo » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:19 pm

mk e wrote:
Ken0069 wrote:
exhaustgases wrote:So are there any colleges that are not of the liberal leaning?


Liberty University here in Lynchburg, Va is probably the most Conservative of any of the large large Universities in the country. The Chancellor of that college is a Conservative and he endorsed Trump, and, allows concealed carry on campus, and, is on Trump's advisory committee!


That is a Liberal Arts college where you can 4 plus year and graduate with a "degree" in bible study ....that will really advance your career unless you plan to play for money [-o<

That has to be about the funniest thing I read here from this year and last.
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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby Splitter » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:35 pm

Look at the Merriam-Webster definitions of liberal vs conservative in the context of philosophy:

Liberal:
• broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

Conservative
•tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions

If the goal of higher education is progress, I would expect any university to be liberal out of necessity.

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby David Redszus » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:11 am

Splitter wrote:Look at the Merriam-Webster definitions of liberal vs conservative in the context of philosophy:

Liberal:
• broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

Conservative
•tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions

If the goal of higher education is progress, I would expect any university to be liberal out of necessity.

It seems that 99 out of 100 liberal, progressive ideas are bad and wrong headed. In that case, a conservative perspective that does not permit random changes is a useful brake on foolishness.

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby Splitter » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:48 pm

David Redszus wrote:
Splitter wrote:Look at the Merriam-Webster definitions of liberal vs conservative in the context of philosophy:

Liberal:
• broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

Conservative
•tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions

If the goal of higher education is progress, I would expect any university to be liberal out of necessity.

It seems that 99 out of 100 liberal, progressive ideas are bad and wrong headed. In that case, a conservative perspective that does not permit random changes is a useful brake on foolishness.


Well sure, conservatives have an inherent advantage: they can say they're right because they support institutions and policies that are already in place and have thus been proven to work. It's a lot harder to prove something will work when it hasn't been tried yet. And it requires a willingness on the part of the conservative to listen to and consider arguments instead of dismissing them.

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby woody b » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:56 am

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby pdq67 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:32 am

My oldest Son did some tower work a while back and he still talks about it! He said that it was terrible in the winter up north.

A 100 to 200 or more feet in the air, not me!!

I've gunned inside cement kiln preheater towers that are like 425 feet tall, but I was on scaffolding inside the cyclones and duct work.

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby David Redszus » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:44 pm

Splitter wrote:
David Redszus wrote:
Splitter wrote:Look at the Merriam-Webster definitions of liberal vs conservative in the context of philosophy:

Liberal:
• broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

Conservative
•tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions

If the goal of higher education is progress, I would expect any university to be liberal out of necessity.

It seems that 99 out of 100 liberal, progressive ideas are bad and wrong headed. In that case, a conservative perspective that does not permit random changes is a useful brake on foolishness.


Well sure, conservatives have an inherent advantage: they can say they're right because they support institutions and policies that are already in place and have thus been proven to work. It's a lot harder to prove something will work when it hasn't been tried yet. And it requires a willingness on the part of the conservative to listen to and consider arguments instead of dismissing them.

Agreed, all perspectives should be considered and the better ones should be tested before implementation. But if they don't work as intended (and most do not), they should be quickly abandoned and the previous program returned. But that part does not occur. What happens is that progressives demand more and more money and more and more time to make a bad idea work.

Does anyone remember the definition of insanity?

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Re: A question about so called higher education

Postby pdq67 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:12 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Agreed, all perspectives should be considered and the better ones should be tested before implementation. But if they don't work as intended (and most do not), they should be quickly abandoned and the previous program returned. But that part does not occur. What happens is that progressives demand more and more money and more and more time to make a bad idea work."

But, but, but!!

Peoples jobs are on the line here so why wouldn't they!!!

Lets just wait and see what happens to ACA????????

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