power glide?

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jackdaniels
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power glide?

Post by jackdaniels » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:57 pm

Hey everyone, im back to the place where i get all my questions answered.. :lol:
Ok, i've been told about the power glide transmission a lot. The purpose is drag racing, but as far as i know, powerglides only have 2 gears.
The vehicle would be a dragster, small block chevy 406, no nitrous, or force induction,
I dont know what combination to use. Maybe you guys can guide me and of course teach me a little bit more..
Thank you in advance!!
Daniel

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Post by Transman » Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:21 pm

If you can post your engine combo in detail I'll give you my .02 on what converter combination to use. IMO I'd at least build a Glide using an aftermarket output shaft and OEM 1.76 gears, up to about the 800hp area or so. Use a good input shaft, steel high gear hub, dual ring low servo, and a good valve body of your choice. Also I'd use a good front pump that has the stator tube held in place by additional means besides just the OEM press fit splines. The new BTE front pumps use a 4-pin retention system and aftermarket stator tube, and thus far for me they've worked quite well. Pay attention to details during the build, and you'll have a very reliable Glide!
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Good book on the 'glide

Post by rskrause » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:21 am

Powerglide Trans Hp1355 : How to Rebuild or Modify Chevrolet's Powerglide for all Applications by Carl Munroe

Very useful book.

Rich

awesomebill

Re: power glide?

Post by awesomebill » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:38 pm

A good stock 1.76 gear set with rebuilt planets will be fine along with a good direct steel hub, good input shaft and a good transbrake. This unit will support 750 HP with no problems in the unit you are talking about. I have run these for years with no problems. Light car, SBC you will not go wrong for about 1495.00 you can run forever. Ofcourse, there is a slight chance you could break the planets but again, you may be hit by a car crossing the street if you don't look both ways first. For the money, the best is always nicer. Ded case, 1.80 gear set, you name it. 2995.00+. Choose your weapon.

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Post by Transman » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:44 pm

I'd not use just a 'rebuilt' planet with the OEM gears for one major reason at that kind of power level, or for that matter even maybe at the 600hp area. You'll find that the output shaft on the OEM carrier will twist and eventually break after it's been shortened and resplined. The OEM standard length carrier WILL work to the 800+ hp area, due to the fact that it has sufficient length to absorb the shock load. That said, you're still playing Russian roulette at higher power levels with an OEM output shaft. They'll eventually twist, or break where they meet the back of the flange. IMO the solution every time in a shorty is to use an aftermarket output shaft, or possibly an aftermarket output shaft mated to an aftermarket new iron carrier in an already-assembled mode. To shed more light on this, I was able to easily twist an OEM 1.76 shortened/resplined output shaft in my dragster even with a very mild small block at one point. When you consider the potential risks, it's just now worth sticking with an OEM part in a shorty dragster Glide, or in a more powerful doorcar. The OEM 1.76 gears will live pretty well themselves, but again, it depends on how much peace of mind you require when you let go of the button! If you need more info feel free to ask or contact me.
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Post by awesomebill » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:13 am

Transman wrote:I'd not use just a 'rebuilt' planet with the OEM gears for one major reason at that kind of power level, or for that matter even maybe at the 600hp area. You'll find that the output shaft on the OEM carrier will twist and eventually break after it's been shortened and resplined. The OEM standard length carrier WILL work to the 800+ hp area, due to the fact that it has sufficient length to absorb the shock load. That said, you're still playing Russian roulette at higher power levels with an OEM output shaft. They'll eventually twist, or break where they meet the back of the flange. IMO the solution every time in a shorty is to use an aftermarket output shaft, or possibly an aftermarket output shaft mated to an aftermarket new iron carrier in an already-assembled mode. To shed more light on this, I was able to easily twist an OEM 1.76 shortened/resplined output shaft in my dragster even with a very mild small block at one point. When you consider the potential risks, it's just now worth sticking with an OEM part in a shorty dragster Glide, or in a more powerful doorcar. The OEM 1.76 gears will live pretty well themselves, but again, it depends on how much peace of mind you require when you let go of the button! If you need more info feel free to ask or contact me.
For a light SBC Dragster in the 600 hp range, it would be like jumping up and down on your front steps an hoping to crush them as to breaking the stock output shaft, even resplined, as shortening it would yeild more load. But still you would be very safe. As I said in my last post, if you want the best use the best, people seem to forget, when we did not have any aftermarket output shafts 10 years ago we used the stock stuff with a pretty good success rate. If your budget will allow the cost of new aftermarket everything, go for it. But by no means will you hurt the stock stuff with your particular combination. Ran 7.90 for years with an old BBC 477 my draster with stock 1.76 stuff. Never broke nothing but the stock input shafts and direct hubs. If you need more info, please feel free to call any time.

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Post by Transman » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:06 pm

The OEM output shaft does NOT get stronger when shortened as you imply. It has LESS distance to absorb the torsional loads put upon it. Simple engineering. I've built race transmissionsfor myself and others since the late 70's, and have seen too many of the OEM shortened/resplined/heat-treated output shafts twist and fail. Even at the 600 hp level. My own as well did this in a very mild SBC dragster. The OEM gears (as I did say) will live fairly well. But there's no reason to use 25 year old technology and think you'll have peace of mind when you let go of the button. It's cheap to use an aftermarket carrier with your OEM gears. If you disagree, then you should go back to stud mount rockers, cast iron heads, and 25 year old engine technology as that would make just as much sense IMO. Just my .02... from a person who does race trans building every day. ;)

edit... I'll dig up some old twisted outputs and post photos later to show why it's not such a neat deal...
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Post by awesomebill » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:58 am

I should of said being it will yeild to more load, it will still be able to handle what you are proposing to do with it at your hp level and your weight level.

As far as going to shaft rockers and all the other stuff, I think that was never even mentioned.

As far as building transmission's, we build about 200 a year and our tranny builder has all the work he can handle with 2 r&r guys and all the really high tech new trannys in all the different auto's and trucks. And we offer a 3/year 75,000 mile on all rebuilds as a standard warranty nationwide.


Anyone with 1/2 an eye and some basic understanding can put a bunch of p/g new parts together and get it to work and call themselves a p/g tranny assembler. It seems we forget that 10 years ago the p/g's were just about all stock stuff and they worked for years that way even with BBC's.

Ofcourse the new stuff is the best way to go, but in no way would the stock stuff not be able to handle a 600 hp maybe, sbc in a very light car.

Most of the twisted output shafts got twisted not buy power but tire shake either coming out of the burn out or upon launch anyway. I've seen even the very best gear set and out put shafts broke from real abusive lauches from tire shake in door cars and dragsters.

Most brand new torque converters with sprags fail after 10-20 passes with moderate engines with tire shake anyway. So spare us the nasty looking out put shafts. This proves nothing but its an old part that had failed because of either abuse or stupidity.

Even really good axles with 35-40 spline axles get broke when the r/r tire is not working and the left rear takes all the abuse. Ever wonder why close to all axles with twisted splines are on the left rear axle? Not because it was a bad axle, it was a bad chassis set up with just moderate HP and Torque.

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Post by Transman » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:11 am

Anyone with 1/2 an eye and some basic understanding can put a bunch of p/g new parts together and get it to work and call themselves a p/g tranny assembler. It seems we forget that 10 years ago the p/g's were just about all stock stuff and they worked for years that way even with BBC's.
I guess that's true. Except I've done them for over 25 years now, along with the GM 3-speed automatics. I've won an NHRA Divisional championship in S/ST (when it was on a .400 tree and your stuff had to work to get a reaction time), won the Midwest Funny Car Association championship running a Rick Santos supercharged SBC with my Glide behind it, and been to two final rounds in Top Dragster at IHRA national events. These are just a few examples of my own racing. Last year my transmissions won BOTH the NHRA and IHRA Division 5 titles in Super Pro, a track championship here in IA as well as the NHRA Division 5 high school title, the Quick 16 Doorslammer title at Byron Dragway in IL, and many others. So, I'm probably not in your catagory of a 'p/g assembler'. As to the quality of Glide parts, we ran aftermarket gears as long as I can remember racing. If you do some research you'll find they know who I am at TCI, JW, BTE and ATD/Hipster. And, when it comes to torque converters I don't shy away and send my customers direct to the manufacturers, I work with them myself to select the proper core/sprag or lack therof/stator/fin angle/etc. I do every trans build myself in trying to keep things managable and quality at the highest level. And, I'm involved in R&D in a major way. Not trying to pat myself on the back, but rather informing you that I'm not some hick from Iowa smacking together transmissions. I'm also sorry to see the same attitude carry over here that I perused on another site for some time. Spare that please and things will be much better. No need for that kind of garbage on a very informative and helpful site like this! :wink:
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awesomebill

Post by awesomebill » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:10 pm

As far as the original post about his combination being able to be used with the stock stuff except ofcourse the input and direct hub, I guess the answer is still yes after all the world titles and reminders of stuff that does not belong on this post.

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Post by Transman » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:01 pm

I guess if you were right I'd just back away from this, but it's not right to recommend someone use an OEM output shaft with a 3.75" arm in there. As I said before, I've done in shortened/resplined/heat treated OEM output shafts with LESS than 600 hp with a 3.25" crank. Here is the proof:

Image

Easy to see this one has already twisted half a spline and is on it's way out. It was run behind a small block 331" motor that put my dragster into the mid 8.30 range (wide open) when it did this... in less than one season of use. When you can spend under $275 to get an aftermarket forged output/flange it's just not worth the chance to get by without one. Unless you don't mind losing a race when it breaks, along with risking damage to the rest of the trans and possibly the motor as well. When I give someone advice, it's factual and based on what I see day in and day out. I won't let a customer run an OEM output shaft especiallly in a shorty UNLESS I am 110% certain his combination will allow it to survive. And that usually means 500 hp max and no more than 400 ft/lbs of torque.
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Post by awesomebill » Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:01 am

like I said, that usually happens in the burn out or tire shake only. The mere 3.25 crank could not hurt that. If it did, I would not sell one to my customer. I wonder how long it would last with a big block. You just proved your own stuff can't handle the power of a pretty tame 331. Not very good for sales. I have never seen one of my shafts look like that even after 2 years of consistant 7.50s with a BBC. If I had a 8.30 dragster that twisted the out put shaft like that after 1 season, I would be giving it back to the person who makes it not showing it to the world!

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Post by Transman » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:27 am

It's actually laughable how you dont' really seem to grasp what's common knowledge among those of us who build race transmissions. I really suggest before you post something like you just did that some real-world information of the subject may do you some good. And, I'm not on here to sell anything. I happen to think that there is a LOT of misinformation out here on the internet, proven by your posts as well. If I have a few moments here and there to share information and help someone out then I will. I'll leave it at that, because it's pointless to argue on the internet. I'll simply leave it up to those who choose to read my suggestions to do their own homework and find out the facts. If you want to debate this further, feel free to call me so no more space is wasted on here and you seem to delight in rambling on from what I've seen on a few sites. I'll gladly share information I have with anyone. Oh, I'd also suggest you play the lottery too if you've managed to run a dragster for 2 seasons with an OEM shorty output shaft and have not seen any problems yet. Or, it leaves like a slug. Mine only went 1.13-1.15 60' times with a 331" at that time the gearset was used, and never was subjected to tire shake or improper burnout technique. Damage was done ON THE HIT.
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Powerglid?

Post by Adger Smith » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:29 am

Well said Transman,
I agree there is much misinformation on the NET & in our industry.
Quite a few years ago I saw the need to start doing transmissions. As an engine builder I saw more & more customers that got new engine combinations that were held back by their transmissions/converters.
While running in the old Modified classes, Comp, Stock/ Super Stock & Super Comp. I learned that proper preparation in the transmission & converter was as important as good engine preparation. I have had engine customers bring their transmissions in (that they thought were good) & find twisted out put shafts & bad clutch/steels. Along with a bunch of other problems. I see it is easier to be just a parts changer in the transmission business than the engine business. Locally there are few, if any, transmission shops with a mill and/or lathe. How can you set clearances without the right tools or equipment? Sure, one guy says he uses the "Selective fit" method. How consistent can his quality be? Bill, I think your post was a little too much because you didn't give all the facts & you bristled when another opinion was expressed. I have personally & have BB powered dragster customers that have had the same "luck" as you. I also have a scrap bin with trashed parts from other customers. No one told them about "Soft Hit" converters or running low line pressure or using clutches that give soft coulpe/engaugement. It's "What works for your combination" that is important. In this industry no one has all the correct answers. That is why this forum is so good. It he;ps keep the Exchange of Information active.
That's my point of view & my .02 & I'm sticking to it!
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