Flathead chamber design

[MichaelThompson]

I'll see what other info I can find on the Kloth engine.
His record still stands in XF Pro. The altered record no.

Thanks Kahuna.

I once or twice had the privilege of talking to Barney Navarro on the phone. I just teed up some questions and sat back and listened.

The man was a wealth of knowledge and extremely kind as well.

[jed]

Any body know if Harley spent much time on ex scaveranging??
Does it even work on side valve engine ??

[MichaelThompson]

Jed, not sure if anyone has paid attention to exhaust scavenging but I'll bet Kenny Kloth has.

I do know the Siamesed center exhaust ports cross polute with large overlap cams.

That chamber in the middle needs attention on serious race engines.

[Kahuna]

The center exhaust ports for cyl 2 & 3 and 6 & 7 on the Kloth flathead are divided, using a hand made device.
Flathead engine exhaust will scavenge just like any other. When the dividers are in place, the normal flathead V8 sound goes away & the engine sounds like other V8's
The Kloth engine used both 3 into 1 headers & a set of 180 degree type headers were tried., after someone told Kenny that the 180's were good for an additional 50 HP. Not true.....
I have virtually all the details of the Kloth engine, but will have to call him to see how much additional info he would like to put out there.
Ken has told a bunch in magazines about the engine, but has steered away from the details.
Most think that there is one magic item that made the engine powerful, but, in fact, it's the combination.
Ken has always said that his record is not unbeatable, but that no one is probably willing to do the work.

No, I don't know much more about the Kohler stuff. But, there is a Street talk Member that has spent a considerable amount of time trying to improve them
Jim

[Kahuna]

I can't seem to edit a post.
Michael You are absolutely correct
The center exhaust ports will need to be separated on any engine that has any cam with almost any amount of overlap.
The difficulty is that not only do they need a device installed, but that device needs to be sealed. Sealing is accomplished using stuff like "Furnace Cement", or other, that will withstand the temperature, only after the area is thoroughly cleaned so that it will adhere. Not easily done.
Jim

[jed]

I have seen a fiew pictures of Kloth's engines and if I rember right Kenny used stick cast iron heads.
But knowing Kloth he could have done welding and considerable reshaping of the chambers.
It would be nice if he shared his knowledge with us.

[Kahuna]

Jed
Heads are Aluminum Offenhauser.
Unmachined from Offy on the combustion side

[PackardV8]

Michael You are absolutely correct
The center exhaust ports will need to be separated on any engine that has any cam with almost any amount of overlap.
The difficulty is that not only do they need a device installed, but that device needs to be sealed. Sealing is accomplished using stuff like "Furnace Cement", or other, that will withstand the temperature, only after the area is thoroughly cleaned so that it will adhere. Not easily done.
Jim

The above efforts to seal the divider has not been necessary in my limited experience in this area. Both the Studebaker and the Packard V8s have siamesed center exhaust. I have always built headers by smoothing the interior and grinding a stainless steel divider to be a push fit between the two, then welding that to the header flange, so it slides in place when the headers are installed. After running it this way for a while, one customer had someone tell him my way wasn't making max power. He insisted we pay a pro cast iron repair shop to weld in a divider so as to completely seal the ports out to the flange.

Several hundred dollars and considerable machine work later, the dyno showed zippo. Absolutely no horsepower difference between the close-fit-but-not-sealed divider and the welded in divider.

Your opinions and results may differ.

[jed]

Jack sounds like to me your press in divider
Worked and sealed better than u thought.
Job well done.

[mk e]

Michael You are absolutely correct
The center exhaust ports will need to be separated on any engine that has any cam with almost any amount of overlap.
The difficulty is that not only do they need a device installed, but that device needs to be sealed. Sealing is accomplished using stuff like "Furnace Cement", or other, that will withstand the temperature, only after the area is thoroughly cleaned so that it will adhere. Not easily done.
Jim

The above efforts to seal the divider has not been necessary in my limited experience in this area. Both the Studebaker and the Packard V8s have siamesed center exhaust. I have always built headers by smoothing the interior and grinding a stainless steel divider to be a push fit between the two, then welding that to the header flange, so it slides in place when the headers are installed. After running it this way for a while, one customer had someone tell him my way wasn't making max power. He insisted we pay a pro cast iron repair shop to weld in a divider so as to completely seal the ports out to the flange.

Several hundred dollars and considerable machine work later, the dyno showed zippo. Absolutely no horsepower difference between the close-fit-but-not-sealed divider and the welded in divider.

Your opinions and results may differ.

That SS should be a press fit once it warms up as SS expands more than iron and isn't cooled so it's probably also hotter than the iron around it, again helping seal it. Nice design.

[Kahuna]

I'm sure Jack's divider works well on OHV engines, but won't lend itself to a Flathead Ford design.
Part of the reason for sealing the dividers on a Ford is that the center ports also encompas (sp) the
heat risers.

[Kahuna]

I've often wondered about some of those early engines that had the siamesed exhaust ports like the Cads & Olds engines. Sounds like Jacks fix would work well. I've never looked closely at the Studebakers & Packards.

[PackardV8]

I'm sure Jack's divider works well on OHV engines, but won't lend itself to a Flathead Ford design.
Part of the reason for sealing the dividers on a Ford is that the center ports also encompas (sp) the
heat risers.

A Speedway Motors exclusive! The center exhaust ports on flatheads are siamesed. Our baffles separate these two exhaust ports and prevent reversion while decreasing the dilution of the intake charge. These are a must for high-performance flatheads. The baffle is held in place with an extended stud that replaces the stock cylinder head stud.

Manufactured from bronze to withstand high exhaust temperatures
Includes center adapter stud to pinch the baffle in place
Fitting required. Use on 1936-1953 24-stud engines only

[Nikolas Ojala]

How did you come to the conclusion that the Navarro Hi-Domes don't work?

I repeat that question.

[Kahuna]

Nikolas
I think because that few ever bought them & I've never seen a follow up as to any improvement given.

Jack
Those dividers sold by Speedway will NOT work and create a real bottle neck,
if installed the way the Speedway instructs to do so. They literally end up blocking the ports.
They can be installed & work well, but it takes much work to do so. Again, they have to be sealed