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A New Engine Contest

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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby Keith Morganstein » Thu May 19, 2016 4:31 pm

900HP wrote:
Barry_R wrote:Hot Rod let me in - some famous rich guy decided to only enter one engine and made a place for the downtrodden, maligned tractor engine guy...

I might enter in two contests if they have classes I can compete in - like Street Slow, and Street Poke


I never knew FE stood for Farm Equipment................. it all makes sense to me now! :lol:


A Ford 8n with a 428 cobra jet really makes some hay!
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby gmrocket » Sun May 22, 2016 9:09 am

1135 views in just 16 days...i would say there is plenty of interest.

maybe just keep it simple the first year to get a good start?
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby Kenova » Sun May 22, 2016 9:36 am

Keep it simple every year!
As a spectator there are only two things I am looking for.
1) Something that I could reasonably afford to build or have built.
2) Innovation.
Granted, the two objectives don't exactly go hand in hand.

Ken
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby gmrocket » Sun May 22, 2016 10:17 am

i know if you have a good live streaming of the event,,thats a big plus. the EMC fails at that. i know it was suppose to be on facebook, i tried to follow there and it didnt seem to work very well...hours went by without any updates

ill even lend you my 10 year old laptop and remote cam...with a long cord. just go on skype...its such a simple thing to do.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby hoffman900 » Sun May 22, 2016 10:54 am

Kenova wrote:Keep it simple every year!
As a spectator there are only two things I am looking for.
1) Something that I could reasonably afford to build or have built.
2) Innovation.
Granted, the two objectives don't exactly go hand in hand.

Ken


Item #1 is hard as I think HRM is doing more of that. PHR's was a lot more of #2 which as you pointed out doesn't jive with #1.

I'd much rather see innovation and I love the ship on the bottle format of a vintage style class (old style block / start with any production head, and do whatever you want with the engine from there).
-Bob
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby exhaustgases » Sun May 22, 2016 9:02 pm

Locations need to be close for competitors that have a job, and can't be away from home for days on end.
There needs to be an "Inventive class" and the only things that need regulation are CID, and how it is aspirated. No what its made out of rules, or compression ratio rules etc. etc.
And kill the fascination with just a V8 engine and just American made engines, what is someone afraid of "competition"?
I bet we all would be willing to donate $ for this this new engine completion to get underway. I hope the other one fizzes out.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby Walter R. Malik » Sun May 22, 2016 11:14 pm

exhaustgases wrote:Locations need to be close for competitors that have a job, and can't be away from home for days on end.
There needs to be an "Inventive class" and the only things that need regulation are CID, and how it is aspirated. No what its made out of rules, or compression ratio rules etc. etc.
.


People usually have some kind of vacation time from their job ... it is simply their priority as to when it gets taken.

Compression rules became necessary in the EMC to protect engine builders from themselves as almost half the engines not making all the necessary runs due to detonation destruction does not make for a very interesting contest.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby exhaustgases » Wed May 25, 2016 11:07 pm

Some of us just can't do the traveling thing too many things that prevent it. If high Cr trashes some ones entry then so be it, that is like having a crash in a car race it happens and is part of competition. If its not a competition of inventiveness then your back to the normal Magazine mess that already exists, and stupid restrictive rules make it boring.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby Walter R. Malik » Thu May 26, 2016 8:08 am

exhaustgases wrote:Some of us just can't do the traveling thing too many things that prevent it. If high Cr trashes some ones entry then so be it, that is like having a crash in a car race it happens and is part of competition. If its not a competition of inventiveness then your back to the normal Magazine mess that already exists, and stupid restrictive rules make it boring.


A centralized location is best and the "mess" exists simply because only about 50 people get all the updates for the present contest, those rules are NOT presented in a timely manner and those people building and supplying the engines, (the actual talent here), are treated as the lowest on the totem pole. A few "level playing field" rules never deterred from the popularity of that contest. Being able to present "regular people" as contestants as well as professional engine builders together IS a good thing.

If someone is not one of those 50 people and nothing new is ever presented to the public in the monthly magazine along with no internet or website updates at all from the actual contest organizers ... you get a giant mess where almost nobody is happy. That contest never used to be run this way and it is a shame ... really a shame.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby manyponies » Thu May 26, 2016 10:31 am

^^^^^^^^ What he said.

Not here to bash the EMC in any way as I have enjoyed the Competition over the years. It is frustrating however, to spend money, resources, vacation time, ect. on the competition ( because we are passionate about it), and have it seem so unimportant to the Magazine. Years ago the Magazine put forth rules and dates that were enforced, as a competitor you knew where you stood.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby Rizzle » Thu May 26, 2016 10:29 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote:
exhaustgases wrote:Locations need to be close for competitors that have a job, and can't be away from home for days on end.
There needs to be an "Inventive class" and the only things that need regulation are CID, and how it is aspirated. No what its made out of rules, or compression ratio rules etc. etc.
.


People usually have some kind of vacation time from their job ... it is simply their priority as to when it gets taken.

Compression rules became necessary in the EMC to protect engine builders from themselves as almost half the engines not making all the necessary runs due to detonation destruction does not make for a very interesting contest.


While limiting compression to a set # would limit some of the self-destruction, what about adding a portion to the competition where the final engines need to hold peak tq for a min or so - after the score pull - to validate? Knowing you'd need to complete that (hopefully in one piece) to win, should keep compression from getting too out of hand, while still allowing design freedom.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby Walter R. Malik » Sat May 28, 2016 9:32 am

Rizzle wrote:
While limiting compression to a set # would limit some of the self-destruction, what about adding a portion to the competition where the final engines need to hold peak tq for a min or so - after the score pull - to validate? Knowing you'd need to complete that (hopefully in one piece) to win, should keep compression from getting too out of hand, while still allowing design freedom.


I would make a bet on that ... contestants would still push the issue and a lot of breakage and "burn downs" would result because just the CHANCE that it may succeed is enticing enough for them to go there.
It becomes a "how much detonation can your engine withstand" contest; almost guaranteed.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby exhaustgases » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:39 pm

So in other words no one really cares to see something different, nothing new, no new and great ideas. In the very old days racing was supposed to improve the automobile because of the new ideas that were thought up, just like Smokey and all his inventiveness. Okay keep rules and regulations, but still there could be one category that opens it up for the person that wants to attempt something different. The only rules should be Reciprocating, some sort of fuel burning or usage, physical size, and max hp, and holding it for 5 minutes or more, Max hp so you don't end up with someone trashing the dyno with a top A fuel engine, this would be the big attraction at any "True" engine masters type competition.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby Rizzle » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:02 pm

exhaustgases wrote:So in other words no one really cares to see something different, nothing new, no new and great ideas. In the very old days racing was supposed to improve the automobile because of the new ideas that were thought up, just like Smokey and all his inventiveness. Okay keep rules and regulations, but still there could be one category that opens it up for the person that wants to attempt something different. The only rules should be Reciprocating, some sort of fuel burning or usage, physical size, and max hp, and holding it for 5 minutes or more, Max hp so you don't end up with someone trashing the dyno with a top A fuel engine, this would be the big attraction at any "True" engine masters type competition.


So you just want your type of rules package, eh?

Everything has rules. Inventiveness isn't just playing without rules, its playing within them. Earlier EMC entries have had some out of the box ideas (most of Mr. Kaase's I believe, though the EMC hemi 4 TB / IR intake is well up there) that would never have come out without a rules package limiting those areas in another manner.
Smokey's ideas came about because rules promote creativeness to beat those rules.
F1 energy recovery tech is at the forefront of ideal recovery paths when considering weight. The Turbulent jet ignition in F1 is a racing showcase of creative thinking, applied within rules.

I wish the competition supported the contestants better. It always seemed like they got the short end of the stick, for the effort, time, and money they put in.
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Re: A New Engine Contest

Postby manyponies » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:17 am

Rizzle wrote:
exhaustgases wrote:So in other words no one really cares to see something different, nothing new, no new and great ideas. In the very old days racing was supposed to improve the automobile because of the new ideas that were thought up, just like Smokey and all his inventiveness. Okay keep rules and regulations, but still there could be one category that opens it up for the person that wants to attempt something different. The only rules should be Reciprocating, some sort of fuel burning or usage, physical size, and max hp, and holding it for 5 minutes or more, Max hp so you don't end up with someone trashing the dyno with a top A fuel engine, this would be the big attraction at any "True" engine masters type competition.


So you just want your type of rules package, eh?

Everything has rules. Inventiveness isn't just playing without rules, its playing within them. Earlier EMC entries have had some out of the box ideas (most of Mr. Kaase's I believe, though the EMC hemi 4 TB / IR intake is well up there) that would never have come out without a rules package limiting those areas in another manner.
Smokey's ideas came about because rules promote creativeness to beat those rules.
F1 energy recovery tech is at the forefront of ideal recovery paths when considering weight. The Turbulent jet ignition in F1 is a racing showcase of creative thinking, applied within rules.

I wish the competition supported the contestants better. It always seemed like they got the short end of the stick, for the effort, time, and money they put in.


Well Said
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