How is Snap-On/Matco/Mac Tools going to compete with China??

[JoePorting]

Over the past 15 years I use to like walking through Harbor Freight and laughing at all their cheap tools. But I went last week for the first time in a few years and was really shocked how the quality of everything has improved. It looks like China re-engineered the entire Snap-On/Matco Tool catalog and is now selling everything at 5 to 10 cents on the dollar. Even their Snap-On look-alike tool boxes are selling for $1,000 and under. They have a Snap-On look-alike polished wrench set with standard and metric, short and long 40 piece going for $21. Snap-On would probably sell all those wrenches for $1,000+. I bought a Matco Look-alike short metric ratchet wrench set for $25 and it seems to work as good as a $250 Matco wrench set.

I also noticed the last time I dropped off oil at Pepboys that none of their mechanics have Snap-On/Matco/Mac Tools tool boxes. They were all Craftsman and Husky. Twenty years ago any mechanic would have been shamed to have a Craftsman/Husky tool box.

This all makes me think that Snap-On/Matco/Mac Tools is going to have a hard time in the future. With their prices going up 3 or 5 percent every year, they are pricing themselves out of existence. Hate to see any great American company go out of business, but I think that's where these tool companies are heading. They need to drop their prices by around 50% and try and live with a lower rate of return on all their tools if they want to stay in business. Even that's no guarantee.

[woody b]

More and more stuff on that Snap on/ Mac/ Matco sales is made somewhere other than the US. I believe each has "economy " lines on their trucks now. I'll look tomorrow but I believe I've even got a Mac ratchet that was made in China.

I'm not intending to be a smart azz.... and I'm not "insulted" by you tool box comment. I started out 34 years ago with a Craftsman tool box. 17 years ago I "upgraded" to 2 Kobalt (Lowes) boxes. I don't mind spending money on quality tools. My boxes are full of mostly Mac and Snap On stuff. I use these tools to earn a living, and I depend on them. All my boxes do are hold my tools. I've never made any money with my boxes.

[BCjohnny]

Not enough tool threads, and just a few random observations ......

In the late eighties one of the 'premium' tool makers mentioned changed the script on a lot of their stuff (mostly the common spanners) from the older 'Made in USA' to the newer just 'USA'. Not sure what the labelling laws are in the States, but over here once 'content value' drops below a certain value you can't use the 'Made in ......' prefix. Maybe a portent of change?

Premium tool purchase is not necessarily governed by 'value'. It's often aspirational, like branded jeans, but there will always be a tipping point for some.

Some of my premium tools are simply irreplaceable (such as the long series straight 'Snap-On' box ended 'aircraft' spanners, ratchets etc), but as I usually loathe working on vehicles and avoid it like the plague these days, it's less of an issue. I've normally enough good alternatives to leave the 'Snap-On' stuff in the tool box.

Taking 'premium' tools out of the workshop, to race meetings etc, is a good way to wave them goodbye. I've never been in the pits and not have someone ask to borrow something.

Like most here I've a good selection of 'premium' tools, but it's been a long time since I've bought them in any kind of volume. Few years back a local warehouse had some 'cheap' boxed socket sets, made in Taiwan IIRC, so having looked them over I took a punt. The ratchet was crap, but the sockets were quite amazing really, thin wall, six point flank drive and nicely finished, 8mm - 32mm in most increments, $25. I 'tortured' them, went straight back and bought another three sets, my mate bought two, I guess I have enough to last me out now. I've yet to break a socket, used them this weekend (as much as I loathe ......), even with an impact gun, yes I know, but we've all done it and it's a good test ......

Everything you see is symptomatic of a lot of what's complained about as regards offshore manufacturing. For most thing you can't stop it, but what a lot of purchasers struggle with is lowering manufacturing cost by doing so AND also raising prices.

JMO

[hoffman900]

If you look at what the average mechanic makes and then look at what those premium line tools cost, it's just no feasible for them to have anything but. Why go $20k in debt over tools if you can spend half as much for 3/4 of the equivalent product?

[Zmechanic]

One of the ways I think they have survived is by convenience. Truck pulls up to your shop and gives you credit. I'm not sure if this is enough to sustain them, but I think has definitely helped their entrenchment.

I think Craftsman even makes a ratchet that's not junk. Their old design was possibly my least favorite in existence. I still consider Harbor Freight to be an "at your own risk" endeavor. Some of the things are a nice value. Others will cause you headaches you didn't expect. One of these is wrenches. I will NOT tolerate a wrench that is on the loose side of the spectrum. If you've handled any import stuff, you have probably come across a set. Those things are nut rounders waiting to happen.

But with that said, I could NEVER bring myself to spend the money on a new Snap-On box. Just doesn't make sense...

[Dave Koehler]

I have 4 42" stuffed Waterloo bottom boxes that have served me well for decades.
In a quest to free up some floor space I purchased 2 of the HF 72" boxes.
I transferred the contents of those boxes to the 2 new HF boxes and had a little room left over.
Hi, My name is Dave and I have to admit that I like the HF box.

[pdq67]

Best ratchet ever made imho!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-THORSEN ... 21&vxp=mtr

VINTAGE THORSEN 77 "knife and fork" open headed jobber!!

I have all three and would love to have 3/4" but I would never use it...

pdq67

[WeingartnerRacing]

The tool companies did it to themselves. Snap on and etc. wanted too much for what people could pay. Craftsman had American tools that were decent then wanted to make more money so they went to made in China. Then as a consumer you're in the same boat buying harbor freight.

[woody b]

[jake197000]

m.ac and matco tools are made by someone else.and and the quality has gone way down .they also are generally a lot cheaper than snap on.snap on also has blue point that is mostly offshore stuff.if its a hand tool and says snap on.its made by snap on in the usa.far better quality.having said that are there tools that will suffice ? sure there are.dont want to start a thing,but in my opinion snap on is far better.do you have to have them to do your job ? hell no but they sure feel good.i also have a mishmash of tool boxes.icare whats in them.

[Splitter]

Snap On has a line of "global" tools and a line of USA made tools. I have some Mastercraft 'Professional' wrenches, made in China and they're as good as anything on the market now. If
China can make tools of this quality for a lower cost to end user, then I don't care if domestic tool companies are outsourcing. I don't believe it hurts the economy, in fact I'm pretty sure it's a good thing.

[peejay]

More and more stuff on that Snap on/ Mac/ Matco sales is made somewhere other than the US.

More and more stuff that is sold by the tool reps is available at Harbor Freight for 5-10% of the price and no fancy sticker.

Basically when you buy from MAC or Matco or whatever they scrape off the Made In China decal and add a large markup.

[peejay]

If you look at what the average mechanic makes and then look at what those premium line tools cost, it's just no feasible for them to have anything but. Why go $20k in debt over tools if you can spend half as much for 3/4 of the equivalent product?

When I was a dealer tech, $50k/yr was considered a minimum if you were a kind of slacker who screwed up a lot. Most made over $100k/yr.

Of course back then you could get a top of the line Snap-On toolbox for $20k and MAC wrench sets were only $200. Only.

[af2]

If you look at what the average mechanic makes and then look at what those premium line tools cost, it's just no feasible for them to have anything but. Why go $20k in debt over tools if you can spend half as much for 3/4 of the equivalent product?

When I was a dealer tech, $50k/yr was considered a minimum if you were a kind of slacker who screwed up a lot. Most made over $100k/yr.

Of course back then you could get a top of the line Snap-On toolbox for $20k and MAC wrench sets were only $200. Only.

WOW!! When I worked at a dealer in 82 the pay was $10.00 per flat rate hour. I was lucky to make $30,000 and have a $1100 per month tool bill. I learned quick to get out LOL.

[900HP]

I think you guys are confusing "hobbyist" with "professional" here. If you compare a Snap-on wrench to a Crafstman the balance and feel are completely different, not to mention the Snap-on is much stronger. Does this matter to the weekend guy changing his own alternator? Absolutely not. Does it matter to the guy who is paid by productivity and has to be efficient no matter what he happens to be working on? Absolutely.

It's kind of like saying you can buy an old manual axe hone for cheap so why would you want to spend the money on a Sunnen SV10 or SV20? ............. having the correct tool for the job makes all of the difference sometimes