Jacque Vizard Memorial 302 Dyno test

[BobbyB]

Wow!
Are these out of the box AFR 165 Renegade heads?
What type of cam is it, solid roller?
How near stock is the "near stock 302 efi"?
+40 ft lbs at 2500 rpms & +60 ft lbs at 3000 rpms is amazing to me.

Sorry if I missed reading something. Thanks for sharing this. Really appreciate your work and time.

[David Vizard]

Bobby,
answer to your questions:-

Are these out of the box AFR 165 Renegade heads? YES - I WILL PUT UP ANOTHER POST WITH FLOW CURVES AND RELATIVE INFO ABOUT THEM

What type of cam is it, solid roller? HYDRAULIC ROLLER - TERRY WELTERS IS YOUR SOURCE FOR THIS AND IT WILL COST EXATLEY THE SAM AS FROM COMP

How near stock is the "near stock 302 efi"? A SET OF NICELY RECONED HEADS WITH GOOD SEATS AND K-LINE GUIDES, PISTON TO BORE CLEARANCE OPENED UP TO 0.004 BLOCK DECKED TO PUT THE CR AT WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE (CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THAT WAS) MANIFOLD TO PORTS MATCHED AND A FEW THINGS DONE TO THE THROTTLE BODY TO IMPROVE FLOW. ALSO HAD SELECTED BUT STILL STOCK ROCKERS. THIS WAS RUN ON THE DYNO WITH THE DNYO CELL ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM.

+40 ft lbs at 2500 rpms & +60 ft lbs at 3000 rpms is amazing to me.

[900HP]

Nice piece, David. Question for you, could you have carried the power out further past peak with more exhaust duration? -- Mark D.

[hondo383]

Nice work!
How much is given up from your "correct" 108 LSA/102 ICL vs the "incorrect" 110 LSA/106 ICL with all else being equal? You have surely done alot of A-B-A testing of such things to prove them out...

[David Vizard]

Nice work!
How much is given up from your "correct" 108 LSA/102 ICL vs the "incorrect" 110 LSA/106 ICL with all else being equal? You have surely done alot of A-B-A testing of such things to prove them out...

With a build like this typically 18-20 lbs-ft and hp.
DV

[Runit]

David: I'm curious. Have you ever worked with one of the simulation programs like Dynomation? Was the simulator able to see the difference in the lobe centers?

[F-BIRD'88]

Nice work!
How much is given up from your "correct" 108 LSA/102 ICL vs the "incorrect" 110 LSA/106 ICL with all else being equal? You have surely done alot of A-B-A testing of such things to prove them out...

And what is the real tested difference between the "correct 108LSA/102 ICL cam and say a good enough off the shelf 110LSA/106 ICL cam BUT installed on a fair compare 110LSA/102 ICL.
(advanced a bit more to 102° so the installed C/L 's matches up)

How does the off the shelf cookie cutter cam compare now?

[MadBill]

Good question, and it also touches on the near-universal cam company recommendation of indexing at 4° advance. The companies' typically-wide LCAs are thought by many to be a move to save guys from themselves when they go too big on duration. Where does the '4° advance' advice really come from?

[289nate]

Will the block and crank prep to handle 600 hp be covered in your book David?

[289nate]

I think some of the absurdly high guesses were swayed by the old Westech 302 builds AFR still advertises on their web site. 455 HP at 6,100 rpm with a Vic Jr, 185 AFR heads, Comp Cams Extreme Energy 282 cam, 650 Holley, and 10:1 compression. Then the same engine with a Performer RPM and AFR 165 heads made 421 HP at the same peak of 6,100 rpm. Or maybe it was the just over 400 HP made at by a stock 302 with 1.7 rockers and a Performer RPM intake using AFR 165 heads on Westech's dyno for a Car Craft article. Don't even get me started on how bad it ran at the track I used to drag race at. Dyno magic to sell parts at it's best. Bet David's combo has an honest 70-80 hp over that last one I mentioned.

[David Vizard]

Will the block and crank prep to handle 600 hp be covered in your book David?

I like questions like this! The answer is YES.

[David Vizard]

David: I'm curious. Have you ever worked with one of the simulation programs like Dynomation? Was the simulator able to see the difference in the lobe centers?

Sorry not to have responded sooner on this. I have had Dynomation almost from day 1. I use it quite a lot and it does, as with several other programs, give a working guide as to the responses of various changes. I also use Performance Trends stuff a lot. Programs like these are good for a primary investigation but remember nothing beats a real world dyno or track test
DV

[gmrocket]

David, can you post the dyno sheet numbers from 2500 to 6500? i have a hard time reading the graph...thanks

[MadBill]

Don't know if it will work on your computer, but if I hold down the 'ctrl' button on my keyboard, rolling the scroll button on the mouse allows enlargement of the screen info up to 400%.

[Kevin Johnson]

David, can you post the dyno sheet numbers from 2500 to 6500? i have a hard time reading the graph...thanks

You could also try looking at it with Chrome. IE and Firefox look similar on my monitors with bands of darkened color running across but Chrome gives a consistent yellow field.

I logged onto a college site and IE had an absolutely horrible representation of the background color and text color -- practically unreadable. I talked to the IT department and was told it was a known issue and to use Chrome.