EMC 2016

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Barry_R
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Barry_R »

I've been spectating on the responses for a little while as I gather my thoughts.

I will start off on the "spec" class comments since that is where I ran this time, but will try to make the ideas transferable because - in my eyes - "spec" classes should rotate between big blocks and small blocks. I am very much aware that the "big" and "small" designations are not entirely perfect as descriptions for all engines, and that there is a fair amount of overlap - but I also think we all know what it means.

I do not think the chosen compression means all that much, but will agree that the 10.5 is a more readily accepted number for street use.

I agree - and suggested (and whined about) the valve size being set at the same size for everybody based on the largest one sold in any accepted spec head.

The requirement for stainless valves should be stuck back in there. Not sure how it got dropped, but if this is a street flavor class we can't be using $1000 valves.

If we continue to spec a lifter type and brand I need to be allowed to modify - since Comp does not sell a high RPM hydraulic for my engine family. This likely applies to other families as well. Or allow us solid flats as an alternate like Randy sez.

I believe that any iron block should be allowed as long as it retains complete factory architecture - bore spacing, deck height, cam position, head fasteners, etc. Many of these engines are pretty old, and original blocks can cost as much to update as they do to replace.

I like the oil pan and header rules for the most part - might make a pitch for light duty pickup truck parts inclusion since they are a really large part of the hobby. Still be OK if the powers say "no" on that.

Carb rule is fine as is. Do not understand the "no spacer" deal in any way. Those are cheap, easy, and are used in darn near every street build on the planet. Limit them to one inch total height as measured on a workbench and lets have at it.

No welding, no epoxy - no problem. And I live 20 minutes away from a guy who could weld toilet paper to a rubber duck and have a nice looking bead....

General contest thoughts...
We NEED to have some kind of final event. I have suggested one method. Others have suggested alternates. Does not really matter how they structure it, but we NEED something. Right now there is no end of week drama, and no build up. Everybody runs one day and we go home. Even though some of the magazine/media folks have rejected this idea - their own coverage reflects this very clearly. Lots of enthusiasm on the first couple days with articles, images and video posted - then less and less as the week goes on and tedium sets in. It's been a full week since I drove down and we have not seen an image gallery since Day 1 on any of Hot Rod's sites. The only videos are the oil fire and a big check handoff (Hi Joe!). This is the second year where this exact thing has occurred - I think it happens because there is nothing to look forward to as the week progresses (This is NOT, NOT, NOT a slam at the nitrous guys that ran on Friday - - they have had zero coverage so far).

I feel like the media types are trying to be too professional in their video and posting efforts. They have the resources on site, but the immediacy is pretty important in the social world. We live in an era where a 12 year old can get 1,000,000 hits by posting a video of a cat falling off of a ladder - its probably more important to be quick and interesting than it is to be perfect in terms of production.

I feel that three classes are all the event can logistically support. A small block, a big block, and a vintage. You can tweak them year over year with displacement, heads, spec/non-spec, carburetion, EFI or whatever to keep things fresh and active. No idea how to contain the dominance of those bad to the bone Y blocks... :) I would personally love to see some visual variety on induction - dual quads, Webers, IR injection, etc. You could have some different bonus awards for certain characteristics - things like Editor's choice, best appearing, Miss Congeniality type stuff to put some non-winner sweeteners in there. The TQ monster and Horsepower monster ones are cool but will always go to one class or another without factoring.
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by manyponies »

Walter R. Malik wrote:
manyponies wrote:For spec and non spec engines, what is the criteria to determine the engine type and family?.
I asked the exact same question numerous times and got NO answer.

Is a 455 Olds a different family than a 350 Olds even though they can use the same head ...? In past years a 440 RB block Mopar was considered a different family than a 400 B block engine and those two share the same heads.
A 400 block Ford was considered a different family than a Cleveland Ford even though they share the same heads. And, a 302/5.0 was considered to be a different family than a 351W which share the same heads
A big block Chevy is always allowed to use a truck tall deck block ...???
Yet, in a past year a stroker Boss 302 was not allowed because it was deemed to be the same family as a 351 Cleveland and they are totally different.

I think the criteria changes to suit because it has never been specifically outlined and this makes absolutely no sense at all.
It is arbitrarily different every year.
.

I have asked many times as well with the same result. I think this is one area in the rules that needs to be cleaned up. While some engine share the same head and considered different families. Some engine use different head and are considered the same family, Cleveland head allowed on Windsor blocks. In years past the rules also stated no hybrid engines. If the rule is too muddy, too complicated, or not enforced.....take it out.
Barry_R wrote:I've been spectating on the responses for a little while as I gather my thoughts.

I will start off on the "spec" class comments since that is where I ran this time, but will try to make the ideas transferable because - in my eyes - "spec" classes should rotate between big blocks and small blocks. I am very much aware that the "big" and "small" designations are not entirely perfect as descriptions for all engines, and that there is a fair amount of overlap - but I also think we all know what it means.

I do not think the chosen compression means all that much, but will agree that the 10.5 is a more readily accepted number for street use.

I agree - and suggested (and whined about) the valve size being set at the same size for everybody based on the largest one sold in any accepted spec head.

The requirement for stainless valves should be stuck back in there. Not sure how it got dropped, but if this is a street flavor class we can't be using $1000 valves.

If we continue to spec a lifter type and brand I need to be allowed to modify - since Comp does not sell a high RPM hydraulic for my engine family. This likely applies to other families as well. Or allow us solid flats as an alternate like Randy sez.

I believe that any iron block should be allowed as long as it retains complete factory architecture - bore spacing, deck height, cam position, head fasteners, etc. Many of these engines are pretty old, and original blocks can cost as much to update as they do to replace.

I like the oil pan and header rules for the most part - might make a pitch for light duty pickup truck parts inclusion since they are a really large part of the hobby. Still be OK if the powers say "no" on that.

Carb rule is fine as is. Do not understand the "no spacer" deal in any way. Those are cheap, easy, and are used in darn near every street build on the planet. Limit them to one inch total height as measured on a workbench and lets have at it.

No welding, no epoxy - no problem. And I live 20 minutes away from a guy who could weld toilet paper to a rubber duck and have a nice looking bead....

General contest thoughts...
We NEED to have some kind of final event. I have suggested one method. Others have suggested alternates. Does not really matter how they structure it, but we NEED something. Right now there is no end of week drama, and no build up. Everybody runs one day and we go home. Even though some of the magazine/media folks have rejected this idea - their own coverage reflects this very clearly. Lots of enthusiasm on the first couple days with articles, images and video posted - then less and less as the week goes on and tedium sets in. It's been a full week since I drove down and we have not seen an image gallery since Day 1 on any of Hot Rod's sites. The only videos are the oil fire and a big check handoff (Hi Joe!). This is the second year where this exact thing has occurred - I think it happens because there is nothing to look forward to as the week progresses (This is NOT, NOT, NOT a slam at the nitrous guys that ran on Friday - - they have had zero coverage so far).

I feel like the media types are trying to be too professional in their video and posting efforts. They have the resources on site, but the immediacy is pretty important in the social world. We live in an era where a 12 year old can get 1,000,000 hits by posting a video of a cat falling off of a ladder - its probably more important to be quick and interesting than it is to be perfect in terms of production.

I feel that three classes are all the event can logistically support. A small block, a big block, and a vintage. You can tweak them year over year with displacement, heads, spec/non-spec, carburetion, EFI or whatever to keep things fresh and active. No idea how to contain the dominance of those bad to the bone Y blocks... :) I would personally love to see some visual variety on induction - dual quads, Webers, IR injection, etc. You could have some different bonus awards for certain characteristics - things like Editor's choice, best appearing, Miss Congeniality type stuff to put some non-winner sweeteners in there. The TQ monster and Horsepower monster ones are cool but will always go to one class or another without factoring.
A lot of good points Barry!!
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by gmrocket »

brechlrl wrote:I like that idea.. Plenty of room for diversity of engines and a simple way to level the playing field a bit
Yup, diversity is really lacking.

Of all those spec heads allowed, how many were actually used? Was there any AMC, Buick, Olds or Pontiac? Just asking
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Raceheads.ca »

Cory Short brought a 360 Dodge to the Nitrous shootout. Team Short performed very well considering Cory put this engine together 'last minute' with a N/A camshaft he had laying around. I believe the 360 SBM was around 16 to 19 points behind the second place winners 'Atlas Performance' LS
The 360 actually made more HP than the 2nd place LS, but was down on TQ
The engine was never tuned on Nitrous till the actual event. So two of Corey's counting scores were taken from the tuning session. Team Atlas also helped tune the 360 on the Dyno. Talk about sportsmanship. The winners of the class, team SAM were also a great bunch. These guys loaned several fuel jets to help in the Tune Up process. Hats off to all teams!
Enjoy this vid.

http://vid237.photobucket.com/albums/ff ... G_4808.mp4
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Walter R. Malik »

I heard they want a "supercharged" class next year so, make that small block engines ... have some sort of "big block" class having O.E.M. intake port location cylinder heads with a maximum valve size, (which would include all the present "spec" class engines), and a "Vintage" class.

In my opinion, That would be plenty.
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Barry_R »

Any updated rumors or coverage?
Seems like the "buzz" has faded away pretty quickly...
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Carroll »

I like your ideas Barry, you make a lot of good points about the build up to the end of the week. Joe C
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Adger Smith »

There are some good ideas floating around. I had a PM that suggested limiting Joe C. & the other BBC's to .500 lift. Hummm. It was signed Indian lover.
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Walter R. Malik »

Adger Smith wrote:There are some good ideas floating around. I had a PM that suggested limiting Joe C. & the other BBC's to .500 lift. Hummm. It was signed Indian lover.
A valve lift rule for everyone is not really a bad idea as long as it is enough, (like .700"), ... it keeps the NEED for a more exotic valve train with distinctive, uncommon valve springs to a minimum.
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Barry_R »

A lift rule is a good idea. Something rational like .700.

I think BBC engines are fine with as much lift as they want. But Mr C is required to run on 87 octane
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Adger Smith »

Barry, he might be able to do the 87 because his static compression checked lower than the legal limit.
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by kid7755 »

Barry_R wrote:Any updated rumors or coverage?
Seems like the "buzz" has faded away pretty quickly...
Barry. The only thing that I have heard is the Cleveland Indians are going to the World Series.

Whoohooooo!!

C. Henderson
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Barry_R »

So are the Tigers.
I think they get a discount on bleacher seats.
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Carroll »

How many classes would everyone like to see next year? JC
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Re: EMC 2016

Post by Raceheads.ca »

Carroll wrote:How many classes would everyone like to see next year? JC
Two, maybe three classes maximum. Just as in the past, Street and X-treme Street.
Add Vintage if there's enough applicants.
Definitely no 'SPEC' class. It's nice to see many brands of blocks and cylinder heads
that are available to the public, not just brand 'E'
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