CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby SKeown » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:17 pm

Steve Zicht wrote:Frankly, this was the last thing I wanted to see after the Shoot Out was over. So if you critics had all this information at your disposal, first place to last place finishers in both engine contests, what would you do with the information ? Start a negative remarks crusade against some carburetor guy that just missed the top place finish by 1/3 of a single horsepower ? Or an accelleration speed or timed ET that was a fraction of a second off from the first place carburetor ?

It was extremely difficult for me to convince these carburetor specialty shops that this was a friendly and legit get-to-gether of the best carb shops in the nation. For nearly 40 years since the first carb modification shops started to appear, there were shops that were considered innovators and brilliant, and other shops that recognized that they could take advantage of racers with ' shiny and polished ' venturies with ' pretty ' finishes with very exagerated performance claims and hefty price tags with them.

One of the most respected race carburetor builders in the nation. Dave Braswell, placed second overall in the tuning phase of the big block shoot out. As a matter of fact, Dave was one of the very first guys to start the race carb modification business so many years ago. So now what ? You critics going to call him in his Arizona shop and poke fun of him that he didnt blow away all the other competitors ? If you do, youll probably get a real fast education about carburetor tuning and the million and one ' variables ' that exist in tuning these things right before he slams the phone in your ear !

That being said, what about the shops that didnt even make the ' elite eight ' ? You can find each and every one of their shops phone number on their web site and you can ask them how they all placed in both engine platforms yourself.

Frankly again,some of the shops that did show up were still possibly ' uneasy ' about what they were getting into. Perhaps they too felt this was some kind of conspiracy or set up to ' expose ' their power secrets and BLP would have all this critical and key information to use against all their competitors and gain a very unfair advantage in the aftermarket. Duh ! Why do you think I insisted on a neutral ' judge ' such as David Vizard to monitor both events in its entirety ? David called all the shots ! BLP gave David that power to make decisions and he was the ' master and commander ' of both engine contests.

Now that the first contest is over, I have had nothing but possitive feedback about the ' shoot out ' and it was the damn best time that they could have ever had. Imagine, your greatest business rival from another shop that youve never met in person before coming up to you to congratulate you for your carburetors performance. Im quite certain that this may have happened more than once at the shoot out and it would have been priceless to capture a photograph of all these ' top notch ' and fierce competitors laughing and joking together and actually discussing fuel system tech talk with one another ! And to top that, some guys were actually helping one another with tuning advice on the dyno and admiring and complimenting other shops workmanship on their respective entries. Who in the world would have ever dreamed that this meeting was even remotely possible ?

THIS WAS A TRIAL CONTEST !!! We were testing the waters to see if we could make this kind of contest an annual event. YES! Their were bugs in the system, I freely admit that but BLP had their stuff together which limited the glitches to a very few. Keep in mind, I only persuaded 50% of the carb shops to show up. Some ' no shows ' were still most likely suspicious of the whole thing and simply wanted to watch from the sidelines to see what happened. I have the distint feeling that more shops will be signing up next year.

NEXT YEAR WILL BE EVEN BETTER with a different kind of carburetor competition with some kind of scoring system. Id love to see more sponsors, prize money and a much improved web casting with better camera angles as to it was difficult to see the types of carbs on the dyno. Who says that the power and acceleration numbers cant be seen live as it happens on a computer screen ? Anything is possible now..

WE ARE COUNTING ON THE FORUM READERS ... to give contest and scoring suggestions for the next Shoot Out. It may not be at the same time next year either. Who says it cant be held at another time of the year ?? Were wide open to possitive suggestions. Mike Law would certainly entertain some cool ideas as to he monitors this thread for feedback.

For the ' nay sayers and critics ' that still will argue that this initial shoot out gave you nothing in valid information about the carburetor entries, wait till next time. Our mission this time was to extend a hand out in friendship that this event in the future could be the most fun event to look forward to by the nations race carburetor shops with a special contest that was exclusively designed and organized specificaly for them. Weve nowhere to go now but up and make this better each year with your help with possitive input ! Not negative remarks ! SZ


Steve, we as onlookers don't even know how much HP difference there was between the very best and the worst, not to mention each individual carburetor. So what purpose did it serve those expecting to see what a high dollar custom carb could actually do? The way it turned out, without any kind of reference is disappointing.

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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby fastvette » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:22 pm

jmarkaudio wrote:The boosters are BLP 5105 16 hole boosters with the fuel channel on the OD widened on a lathe to allow more fuel. Banjos were stock with the exit hole rounded. Metering blocks were BLP, they were 4 emulsion hole blocks a prior customer no longer used. Metering came fixed, all passages were drilled and threaded for removable bleeds and idle jets. The angle channel passage was opened to .155, booster pins at .160. The bleeds used are from top to bottom: kill in the angle channel .028, .018, blank, .022, .024. Looking at the AFR's I might have gained a tad more plugging the bottom e-bleed. Idle jet is .037 and is threaded where it gets fuel from the mainwell at the bottom not the top, IAB .067, no power valves. Main air bleed was originally .031, the change I made to pick up power was going to .026. Jets were .127, but remember the oxygenated fuel we used needs more jet. Standard racing gas would be roughly .010-.015 lower. T-slot jets are .063, .128 N&S with standard nitrophyl floats, notched in back with long BLP jets.


Is this the carb for the small block? Did you have that set up as a 2 or 3 circut?
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby razor66 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:26 pm

mbrooks wrote:i would like to see a little more commentary in regards to who is in the dyno room and behind the switches, maybe a picture of the carb before it is installed, something like 'he had a spike through 5g and is changing the high speed air bleed', etc. make it more like golf or some other sport, that way the armchair fanatics can participate or feel like they are there. maybe a leader board.


I agree and with improved audio as well to make it easier to hear the commentary and other discussions. It would also be good to have at least some basic information about each of the carburetors regarding model, venturi & throttle bore size, etc... I would also suggest that for a particular class (i.e. the small block class this year) be limited to the same basic model of carburetor such as 4150 flanged with no 4500's allowed. A live feed showing at least the Air:Fuel ratios during the pulls would be nice as well and wouldn't provide any real time information to other competitors how the other entrants did regarding the parameters being judged (i.e. average acceleration rate), but would provide those watching some beneficial information to follow.
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby Steve Zicht » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:22 pm

razor66 wrote:
mbrooks wrote:i would like to see a little more commentary in regards to who is in the dyno room and behind the switches, maybe a picture of the carb before it is installed, something like 'he had a spike through 5g and is changing the high speed air bleed', etc. make it more like golf or some other sport, that way the armchair fanatics can participate or feel like they are there. maybe a leader board.


I agree and with improved audio as well to make it easier to hear the commentary and other discussions. It would also be good to have at least some basic information about each of the carburetors regarding model, venturi & throttle bore size, etc... I would also suggest that for a particular class (i.e. the small block class this year) be limited to the same basic model of carburetor such as 4150 flanged with no 4500's allowed. A live feed showing at least the Air:Fuel ratios during the pulls would be nice as well and wouldn't provide any real time information to other competitors how the other entrants did regarding the parameters being judged (i.e. average acceleration rate), but would provide those watching some beneficial information to follow.



I wholeheartedly agree ! Id love to hear a commentator discuss different subjects about race car fuel systems in general and about the different types of carburetor entries while theres downtime during the tuning phase with each contestant. Also interviews with the contestants would be cool too. This annual shoot out can be real slick every year if you give it a chance. Im hoping for a camera directly above the carburetor on the dyno. Then you get to see clearly what type it is and watch that baby open up when the dyno operator gives the command. This shoot out could really turn out as a real crowd pleaser in the future. SZ
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby JoePorting » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:36 pm

The general concept of a competition, or "shoot out", or race is that there is a winner and the rest are the loosers. When NASCAR or NHRA have an event, they list ALL the results including placement and timing. I don't see why this event should be any different. I don't think there would be any name calling. When Jeff Gordon comes in 15th place in a race, does everyone call him a "looser"??? I don't think so. I don't think I've ever heard of a competition where the results were withheld. Seems to make the whole event pointless. The winner should have some bragging rights while the others should have the ability to make there own comments about there placement. I guess this was more of a "Carb Club" event. I thought it was a speedtalk event that would be shared with everyone. I assume most of use not in the Carb Club were here to learn something about carbs. But instead we'll have to walk away scratching our heads wondering what it was all about.
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby JoePorting » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:50 pm

I just got off with the phone with Holley. They said they placed in the top eight. Didn't have any other details.
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby Milan.. » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:14 pm

Maybe its more like "Boys Club" not "Carb Club" ????
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby Milan.. » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:15 pm

JoePorting wrote:I just got off with the phone with Holley. They said they placed in the top eight. Didn't have any other details.
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby blocker » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:30 pm

Milan.. wrote:Maybe its more like "Boys Club" not "Carb Club" ????


The winners were announced & some competitors have started posting their dyno sheets..What more do you want? :x I understand your panties are in a twist because the SV1 didn't live up to the hype, let it go. [DELETE THIS POST] me some of you guys carry on like princesses... :roll:
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby Milan.. » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:39 pm

SV-1 ?? Then who ran it??
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby 500PS » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:41 pm

Great Job!! To all that showed up. For the ones that didn't, You missed a great opportunity to prove you actually know what your doing.
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby blocker » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:46 pm

Milan.. wrote:SV-1 ?? Then who ran it??


Dave Braswell, care to question his expertise?
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby Milan.. » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:48 pm

blocker wrote:
Milan.. wrote:SV-1 ?? Then who ran it??


Dave Braswell, care to question his expertise?

Well thank you ! Makes me as "Happy as a possum eatin shit through a picket fence"
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby blocker » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:54 pm

Milan.. wrote:
blocker wrote:
Milan.. wrote:SV-1 ?? Then who ran it??


Dave Braswell, care to question his expertise?

Well thank you ! Makes me as "Happy as a possum eatin shit through a picket fence"


If it makes you quit with the negativity towards the contest, all is good...
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Re: CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

Postby gmrocket » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:57 pm

there have been countless cylinder head shoot outs, camshaft shoot outs, intake manifold shoot outs, header shoot outs, mufflers etc etc etc.

we make our buying decisions on the details given in those contests. maybe we would base our decision on who made the best avg tq? or maybe the best avg hp? or who made the most tq at the hit? or who's carb used the least fuel? maybe on which one had the best distribution on the bb which had 8 O2's

you gave us the first and second which only hurt the others since we have zero info on them. these carb builders should not be ashamed of how they finished. we are the ones who buy these carbs, without "us" there would no "them", its not the other way around.
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