CARBURETOR SHOOT OUT 2012

[Rick1999]

So in the final analysis, this was kind of like NASCAR advertising the best Daytona 500 for about 6 months, then having it in secret, then posting the first and second place finishers, then saying they are not going to say anything else because they don't want to upset anyone.

This is just going to start lots of rumors. I'm guessing that the out-of-the-box $700 Holley made it within the top 5, maybe even third, which would make everyone else's $2,500 carb look bad. Am I right??? Or close???

We said from the beginning that we weren't going to post anybody else's numbers except for the winners, most all of the contestants post on here and are free to say anything about their numbers they want to.

This was our first time to ever attempt to put something like this on and all things considered it went pretty darn well, we have already been talking about ways to improve it for next year, but this year we just had to get something done so we did what we thought would be fair for all the competitors, one of those things was that we (BLP) would not publish the numbers for anybody but the winners. We made that promise and we aren't going to go back on our word to those guys.

[380 Oldsmobile]

So in the final analysis, this was kind of like NASCAR advertising the best Daytona 500 for about 6 months, then having it in secret, then posting the first and second place finishers, then saying they are not going to say anything else because they don't want to upset anyone.

This is just going to start lots of rumors. I'm guessing that the out-of-the-box $700 Holley made it within the top 5, maybe even third, which would make everyone else's $2,500 carb look bad. Am I right??? Or close???

You nailed it ..... and as a consumer its best price , best service .....

X2

[SKeown]

Failure to provide details of the outcome suggest it backfired on the custom carburetor industry. Both builders as well as component suppliers. Lack of integritry in my openion.

SKeown

[banjo]

The boosters are BLP 5105 16 hole boosters with the fuel channel on the OD widened on a lathe to allow more fuel. Banjos were stock with the exit hole rounded. Metering blocks were BLP, they were 4 emulsion hole blocks a prior customer no longer used. Metering came fixed, all passages were drilled and threaded for removable bleeds and idle jets. The angle channel passage was opened to .155, booster pins at .160. The bleeds used are from top to bottom: kill in the angle channel .028, .018, blank, .022, .024. Looking at the AFR's I might have gained a tad more plugging the bottom e-bleed. Idle jet is .037 and is threaded where it gets fuel from the mainwell at the bottom not the top, IAB .067, no power valves. Main air bleed was originally .031, the change I made to pick up power was going to .026. Jets were .127, but remember the oxygenated fuel we used needs more jet. Standard racing gas would be roughly .010-.015 lower. T-slot jets are .063, .128 N&S with standard nitrophyl floats, notched in back with long BLP jets.

Thanks Jmark,

Mine is actually not to far off from that, I may have to try some stuff.

[razor66]

I think some of you guys are way off base thinking there was a lack of integrity at this competition. With a company like BLP hosting the event along with all the companies who were entered that would be the last thing I would be questioning. If you need to hear it from a "non-custom" carb manufacturer then contact Holley or even Quick Fuel directly and ask them about their results and what they thought about this competition including the integrity of it since they were both entered. I'm sure if they thought there was some kind of conspiracy, they would have said so. I know by watching & listening to almost all of all 4-days of the competition on the Webcasts I heard nothing but good things from the entrants - including comments made by the representatives there from Holley and Quick Fuel.

[SKeown]

I think some of you guys are way off base thinking there was a lack of integrity at this competition. With a company like BLP hosting the event along with all the companies who were entered that would be the last thing I would be questioning. If you need to hear it from a "non-custom" carb manufacturer then contact Holley or even Quick Fuel directly and ask them about their results and what they thought about this competition including the integrity of it since they were both entered. I'm sure if they thought there was some kind of conspiracy, they would have said so. I know by watching & listening to almost all of all 4-days of the competition on the Webcasts I heard nothing but good things from the entrants - including comments made by the representatives there from Holley and Quick Fuel.

Then why isn't the public privy to the results of at least the "elite8" in each catagory? Besides, I've followed every word throughout the postings here and saw nothing to indicate the results would be kept secret. I'm sorry, but I find it questonable.

SKeown

[Alan Roehrich]

So in the final analysis, this was kind of like NASCAR advertising the best Daytona 500 for about 6 months, then having it in secret, then posting the first and second place finishers, then saying they are not going to say anything else because they don't want to upset anyone.

This is just going to start lots of rumors. I'm guessing that the out-of-the-box $700 Holley made it within the top 5, maybe even third, which would make everyone else's $2,500 carb look bad. Am I right??? Or close???

We said from the beginning that we weren't going to post anybody else's numbers except for the winners, most all of the contestants post on here and are free to say anything about their numbers they want to.

This was our first time to ever attempt to put something like this on and all things considered it went pretty darn well, we have already been talking about ways to improve it for next year, but this year we just had to get something done so we did what we thought would be fair for all the competitors, one of those things was that we (BLP) would not publish the numbers for anybody but the winners. We made that promise and we aren't going to go back on our word to those guys.

Rick, you guys at BLP deserve much credit for sticking to the agreement you made with the competitors in the shootout despite the pressures being put on you here. Keeping your word is getting to be a rare thing in this industry, unfortunately.

To those of you criticizing the people at BLP for keeping their word and not publishing the results, you should consider the fact that they have the integrity to keep their word, even when it is not easy. You need to think about that when you spend your money.

[razor66]

So in the final analysis, this was kind of like NASCAR advertising the best Daytona 500 for about 6 months, then having it in secret, then posting the first and second place finishers, then saying they are not going to say anything else because they don't want to upset anyone.

This is just going to start lots of rumors. I'm guessing that the out-of-the-box $700 Holley made it within the top 5, maybe even third, which would make everyone else's $2,500 carb look bad. Am I right??? Or close???

We said from the beginning that we weren't going to post anybody else's numbers except for the winners, most all of the contestants post on here and are free to say anything about their numbers they want to.

This was our first time to ever attempt to put something like this on and all things considered it went pretty darn well, we have already been talking about ways to improve it for next year, but this year we just had to get something done so we did what we thought would be fair for all the competitors, one of those things was that we (BLP) would not publish the numbers for anybody but the winners. We made that promise and we aren't going to go back on our word to those guys.

Rick, you guys at BLP deserve much credit for sticking to the agreement you made with the competitors in the shootout despite the pressures being put on you here. Keeping your word is getting to be a rare thing in this industry, unfortunately.

To those of you criticizing the people at BLP for keeping their word and not publishing the results, you should consider the fact that they have the integrity to keep their word, even when it is not easy. You need to think about that when you spend your money.

Absolutely.

Those still in doubt could also contact the following gentlemen who was asked by BLP to be an independent steward for this event:

[SKeown]

I'm not suggesting the contest was rigged, I'm wondering why the results are being suppressed. If there was an agreement with the contestants that only the top two places would be announced, then why wasn't the public made aware of that beforehand?

When you enguage in any form of competition, there's a real chance the outcome could be somewhat embarrassing. So that reason for keeping the public in the dark seems a bit flimsy to me.

SKeown

[razor66]

I would suggest you just contact Shane Weckerly from Holley and ask him about their results in the SB Shootout and then you will know and can utilize that information however you wish whether that be to make a personal carb selection or other. I'm sure BLP or others who entered the contest can comment further on the agreement to only announce the winner and runner-up in each event. The fact is if it is important enough, then a phone call to the company in which you have an interest will likely be all it takes to get information on their acceleration rates for their runs. If they don't want to reveal that information, then that is their own business.

[af2]

Failure to provide details of the outcome suggest it backfired on the custom carburetor industry. Both builders as well as component suppliers. Lack of integritry in my openion.

SKeown

Really??????

[af2]

I'm not suggesting the contest was rigged, I'm wondering why the results are being suppressed. If there was an agreement with the contestants that only the top two places would be announced, then why wasn't the public made aware of that beforehand?

When you enguage in any form of competition, there's a real chance the outcome could be somewhat embarrassing. So that reason for keeping the public in the dark seems a bit flimsy to me.

SKeown

Again!
Really???

You done with the BS???

[Mike Laws]

The decision to declare only a winner & r/up for each shootout was made months ago, when talk first began about this contest. I take full responsibility for the concept of announcing only a winner & runner up along with the 6 teams that rounded out each Elite-8. This was done so that the winner & runner up’s would (rightly) stand out above the rest, the next 6 would be recognized as being very competitive and also as a gesture of respect for those who finished out of the top-8.

The Elite-8 concept was discussed with each team in the beginning and was well received by 100% of those who entered.

In looking back; I should have done a better job of informing those who would be watching the live feed and keeping up with the shootout concerning the Elite-8 concept. That was my mistake and I apologize. It was an oversight. We will evaluate this concept for next year.

Mike

[Steve Zicht]

Frankly, this was the last thing I wanted to see after the Shoot Out was over. So if you critics had all this information at your disposal, first place to last place finishers in both engine contests, what would you do with the information ? Start a negative remarks crusade against some carburetor guy that just missed the top place finish by 1/3 of a single horsepower ? Or an accelleration speed or timed ET that was a fraction of a second off from the first place carburetor ?

It was extremely difficult for me to convince these carburetor specialty shops that this was a friendly and legit get-to-gether of the best carb shops in the nation. For nearly 40 years since the first carb modification shops started to appear, there were shops that were considered innovators and brilliant, and other shops that recognized that they could take advantage of racers with ' shiny and polished ' venturies with ' pretty ' finishes with very exagerated performance claims and hefty price tags with them.

One of the most respected race carburetor builders in the nation. Dave Braswell, placed second overall in the tuning phase of the big block shoot out. As a matter of fact, Dave was one of the very first guys to start the race carb modification business so many years ago. So now what ? You critics going to call him in his Arizona shop and poke fun of him that he didnt blow away all the other competitors ? If you do, youll probably get a real fast education about carburetor tuning and the million and one ' variables ' that exist in tuning these things right before he slams the phone in your ear !

That being said, what about the shops that didnt even make the ' elite eight ' ? You can find each and every one of their shops phone number on their web site and you can ask them how they all placed in both engine platforms yourself.

Frankly again,some of the shops that did show up were still possibly ' uneasy ' about what they were getting into. Perhaps they too felt this was some kind of conspiracy or set up to ' expose ' their power secrets and BLP would have all this critical and key information to use against all their competitors and gain a very unfair advantage in the aftermarket. Duh ! Why do you think I insisted on a neutral ' judge ' such as David Vizard to monitor both events in its entirety ? David called all the shots ! BLP gave David that power to make decisions and he was the ' master and commander ' of both engine contests.

Now that the first contest is over, I have had nothing but possitive feedback about the ' shoot out ' and it was the damn best time that they could have ever had. Imagine, your greatest business rival from another shop that youve never met in person before coming up to you to congratulate you for your carburetors performance. Im quite certain that this may have happened more than once at the shoot out and it would have been priceless to capture a photograph of all these ' top notch ' and fierce competitors laughing and joking together and actually discussing fuel system tech talk with one another ! And to top that, some guys were actually helping one another with tuning advice on the dyno and admiring and complimenting other shops workmanship on their respective entries. Who in the world would have ever dreamed that this meeting was even remotely possible ?

THIS WAS A TRIAL CONTEST !!! We were testing the waters to see if we could make this kind of contest an annual event. YES! Their were bugs in the system, I freely admit that but BLP had their stuff together which limited the glitches to a very few. Keep in mind, I only persuaded 50% of the carb shops to show up. Some ' no shows ' were still most likely suspicious of the whole thing and simply wanted to watch from the sidelines to see what happened. I have the distint feeling that more shops will be signing up next year.

NEXT YEAR WILL BE EVEN BETTER with a different kind of carburetor competition with some kind of scoring system. Id love to see more sponsors, prize money and a much improved web casting with better camera angles as to it was difficult to see the types of carbs on the dyno. Who says that the power and acceleration numbers cant be seen live as it happens on a computer screen ? Anything is possible now..

WE ARE COUNTING ON THE FORUM READERS ... to give contest and scoring suggestions for the next Shoot Out. It may not be at the same time next year either. Who says it cant be held at another time of the year ?? Were wide open to possitive suggestions. Mike Law would certainly entertain some cool ideas as to he monitors this thread for feedback.

For the ' nay sayers and critics ' that still will argue that this initial shoot out gave you nothing in valid information about the carburetor entries, wait till next time. Our mission this time was to extend a hand out in friendship that this event in the future could be the most fun event to look forward to by the nations race carburetor shops with a special contest that was exclusively designed and organized specificaly for them. Weve nowhere to go now but up and make this better each year with your help with possitive input ! Not negative remarks ! SZ

[mbrooks]

i would like to see a little more commentary in regards to who is in the dyno room and behind the switches, maybe a picture of the carb before it is installed, something like 'he had a spike through 5g and is changing the high speed air bleed', etc. make it more like golf or some other sport, that way the armchair fanatics can participate or feel like they are there. maybe a leader board.