Professional attitude

Larry Widmer · Post by **Larry Widmer** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:53 am

For what it's worth to you....we refuse to install cams in any cylinder head we do for customers. I can't tell you how many customers have set head assemblies down on the deck bending the valves prior to installation on the engine.
We don't adhere to "the customer's always right" around here, as it'll cost you every time.
LW

SStrokerAce · Post by **SStrokerAce** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:48 am

Larry Widmer wrote: We don't adhere to "the customer's always right" around here, as it'll cost you every time.
LW

In our business, the customer is usually "always wrong"

user-9274568 · Post by **user-9274568** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:53 am

Everytime I get into this situation myself, I think of the words of wisdom from Andrew "Dice" Clay..

This guy goes to see a shrink and says, "I have a hard time meeting friends you $%#@ sucker.."

My point is people are close, they want to learn, but have a problem with rubbing us wrong. LOL.. At times it's very very frustrating. Well, always.

ProPower engines · Post by **ProPower engines** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:16 pm

I hear you there.
A lot of 1 time customers that are trying to back yard their repair have a friend or uncle thats in the "industry" and knows it all so they can't be wrong.

We havd a girl bring in her truck a while back that wanted a radiator replaced as she complained she had very little heat and she supplied the rad.

Had the guys change it out but discovered the heater core was pluged and I told her the rad would not help her heat issue and return it and get a new hearter core but that re+re was going to be more then she wanted to spend to fix the issue.
She insisted we change the rad anyway then later complained of less heat then before and that we must have not filled the engine with coolant.
But she was given an option of causes and she choose the less costing repair.
Seems the same logic applys to all vehicle repairs but not just limited to engine work.

user-9613590 · Post by **user-9613590** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:24 pm

I do just as Larry:never cams installed full tight!
Few incidents when customer put head on table valves sticking out of deck and result was easy to quess..
Do it's cam bearing caps just on place so cam keep buckets/rocker arms on place but valves on the seat.And advise to tighten the caps only when the head is on the block and cam(s) properly timed for it.

Fairmont GT · Post by **Fairmont GT** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:06 pm

I learnt my lesson with OHC heads along time ago and since then don't install cams for customers if something goes wrong with their work or parts they always blame the machinist

Warren

msengwks · Post by **msengwks** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:29 pm

I wouldn't ever take the side that the customer is always right, we all know thats not true but it is possible to put the cams in the aprox. location of the timing marks so the customer wouldn't have to move them too far. Might save a hassle like the one your going through; especially if it's 4 or 5 valve per cyl.& DOHC you don't want the valves tagging one another while the guy is turning the cams over to line up the marks . You got to assume the general mech. dosen't know as much as the machine shop doing the heads & they usually prove that to you if thats the case ,so it's up to us, whether we like it or not, to sometimes spoon-feed certain customers and also make sure we are thorough in our job. It's shows a good witness that we are the professionals that we say we are at what we do. If thats not good enough for MR. Customer , well, there is always another thankfully. And NO I am not your DAD writing this.

RL · Post by RL » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:30 pm

Most of the heads we get now the cams have to be removed just to tighten the head bolts. We just leave the cams in place but loose caps so the valves don't get bent also.

xanadu · Post by **xanadu** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:48 am

I have found this also with most DOHC set ups / cams reuire removal to install head bolts.

As for the Toyota DOHC heads with the pre tensioned cam gear.

It is only 1 cam tooth tensioned. I have had calls on a few occasions where people have removed the camshafts and "Stressed" out because the cam gear was not secured with a bolt before removal.

I have thought of starting a post about the stories proffesionals come across from ignorant customers. Not to put down any customers, but just to show the public / novice what we have to put up with at times.

I sometimes think of myself as a Mechanic / Psychiatrist

With some of the things i have copped from customers.

mtkawboy · Post by **mtkawboy** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:18 pm

Ive done a valve job and had then come back and say I caused a U-joint to go bad. It wasnt like that when they bought the car in is what they said. Sadly at a dealership if they scream loud enough you replace the U-joint. Of course they will make it up to you on another job. RIGHT!!!!!!!

OldSStroker · Post by **OldSStroker** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:58 pm

SStrokerAce wrote:
Larry Widmer wrote: We don't adhere to "the customer's always right" around here, as it'll cost you every time.
LW
In our business, the customer is usually "always wrong"

The smart ones will listen to you. The others don't want to hear the truth.

Once again, Yogi was right!

Which ones do you really want for customers?

I part-time selling liquor and wine. There are at least as many folks who THINK they know something about liquor and wine but really don't as there are people buying engine/car stuff with the same attitude.

Sometimes my tongue hurts from biting it. The up side is that many folks who actually spend significant money want good advice. They make the job fun and we cultivate their business.

Jon

Cogburn · Post by **Cogburn** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:12 pm

I have a sign in my shop posted that says...

"NOTICE: Prices subject to change according to customers attitude!"

I've used it a few times too!!

2.2=8 · Post by **2.2=8** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:51 pm

mtkawboy wrote:Ive done a valve job and had then come back and say I caused a U-joint to go bad. It wasnt like that when they bought the car in is what they said. Sadly at a dealership if they scream loud enough you replace the U-joint. Of course they will make it up to you on another job. RIGHT!!!!!!!

We call them "SINSYOU" customers, as in "ever 'since you' replaced my spark plugs my brakes squeek"

Shopboss · Post by **Shopboss** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:08 pm

All of us seem to have some of the same customers. I reach my Idiot quota several times a week and have to start over. What really burns me is when dealing with some of the dealerships and some of the So called Factory Trained Technicians.

I bought a new 2006 Toyota for a service truck. With about 15,000 miles on it I noticed the starter was making a noise when I would crank the engine over. It would kick in and out like the starter was losing and regaining power rapidly and several times it wouldn't engage at all.
Since it was under warranty it took it back to the dealership. I told them from the very start that I thought it was an electrical problem since the starter seemed to react to engine movement and kick in and out. They looked at me like I had two heads or something and since I wasn’t a trained Toyota technician I evidently didn’t know crap.

This is where the saga begins.

They called after keeping the truck for a week and said a starter was on order.
After another week with no word I called and guess what? The starter didn’t fix the problem.
I had been without my truck for 2 weeks at this point.
Since they were having a hard time deciding if the problem was mechanical or an electrical, I suggested they disconnect the power from the starter and straight wire it. I explained that if it still made the same noise then it had to be mechanical but if it didn’t then it was electrical. Again the same look.
Another week goes by with no word. After repeating my suggestion and telling them I really need my truck fixed they started swapping parts from another truck. They swapped the starter again then the flywheel, the backing plate, the transmission, the torque converter and who knows what else.
Again I asked them to test it the way I suggested. Same look. Another week goes by still no truck and no word. I called again and they said they had ordered a new engine. They figured the block was miss-machined and that was what was causing the problem. By then I had given up on getting the truck back for a while. I told them that if they wanted to put a new engine in the truck at 15,000 miles then go right ahead but it wasn’t going to fix the problem. And I pointed out that It had worked without a problem for 15,000 miles and the block didn’t just all of a sudden become miss-machined.
Another week or two. No word so I called to check. Guess what, the new engine didn’t fix the problem. I more or less lost my cool at this point and told them that if they couldn’t fix it I would pick it up, fix it myself and send them a bill. They decided to bring in a Toyota engineer to help. Another week goes by and I demanded a loaner, which by the way according to the warranty I should haven gotten after the first few days.

When I went to pick up the loaner the service writer handed me the keys to my truck and told me, with a big ole grin on his face . "We found the problem. It was a broken wire in the wiring harness." That’s when the fight started.

bobqzzi · Post by **bobqzzi** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:54 pm

2.2=8 wrote:
mtkawboy wrote:Ive done a valve job and had then come back and say I caused a U-joint to go bad. It wasnt like that when they bought the car in is what they said. Sadly at a dealership if they scream loud enough you replace the U-joint. Of course they will make it up to you on another job. RIGHT!!!!!!!
We call them "SINSYOU" customers, as in "ever 'since you' relaced my spark plugs my brakes squeek"

I was 16 and worked in a VW repair shop. Car car came in for a usual tune-up which part of is putting water in the battery if required.
Customer comes back the next day and tells the boss "since you put water in my battery it blew a taillight bulb."