Professional attitude

[Fahlin Racing]

OK pro's, I have had it with ignorant customers!!! I did a valve job on a DOHC and the customer noticed the "CAMS NOT TIMED," tag. Told me that real machine shops "time" cams with out the lower end. In fact he insisted we do the job right, I held my ground and insisted he needed the correct tools and the rest of the motor to time them.
So how do the rest of you deal with this???

Thats funny!

[vetteman9368]

when i was just out of High school I worked at the local auto parts. Had a customer come in for some rod bearings for a SBC. I got them for him. He then asked if they were Chamfered, so i opened the box and took a pair out to show him that they were. He then told me to get him another set as those were no good since i had touched the bearing surface with my finger, and the oils in my finger would cause the bearing to go bad.

[robert1]

Years ago I supervised a pretty good sized shop. This older gentalman brings in a Jaguar straight 6 to be bored. When he comes to pick it up he pops out his inside mic. He argues over and over that he was a tool and die maker for years nad our bore size is wrong. I show him how we set up the Sunnen dial bore gage and measured it to no avail. He left thinking we were wrong and to this day I can't stand inside mics. To me they are nothing more than a calibrated stick.

[Keith Morganstein]

Years ago I supervised a pretty good sized shop. This older gentalman brings in a Jaguar straight 6 to be bored. When he comes to pick it up he pops out his inside mic. He argues over and over that he was a tool and die maker for years nad our bore size is wrong. I show him how we set up the Sunnen dial bore gage and measured it to no avail. He left thinking we were wrong and to this day I can't stand inside mics. To me they are nothing more than a calibrated stick.

I learned to measure and finish bores with an inside mic and always hated it. Never felt it was a good repeatable reading...too much feel involved.

[robert1]

There used to be several stock rebuilders around. Most of them at the time stuck a feeler gage down with the piston because they didn't want to invest the time to train people to measure cylinders.

[Keith Morganstein]

There used to be several stock rebuilders around. Most of them at the time stuck a feeler gage down with the piston because they didn't want to invest the time to train people to measure cylinders.

Or check bearing clearance with brass shim stock between the bearing and the journal.

[Fairmont GT]

Or check bearing clearance with brass shim stock between the bearing and the journal.

This reminded me of an old guy I knew his method of checking bearing clearance was to stick a piece of news paper folded over between the bearing housing and the bearing and tighten it all up if it turned it was fine I wonder what would happen if the clearance was to big to begin with .

Warren

[Raceheads.ca]

OK pro's, I have had it with ignorant customers!!! I did a valve job on a DOHC and the customer noticed the "CAMS NOT TIMED," tag. Told me that real machine shops "time" cams with out the lower end. In fact he insisted we do the job right, I held my ground and insisted he needed the correct tools and the rest of the motor to time them.
So how do the rest of you deal with this???

Thats funny!

I also came across the 5 valve VW 1.8T. To date, this is the only head I worked on that required the two cams to be timed together (with a chain) prior to final timing to crank. Final valve timing was obviously done on engine.
You get to meet all kinds of people in this industry, isn't it great? I thought we were the only ones lol.

I could easily fill two pages about headache generating customers. One big problem is, most think with their pockets, and not with their brains. This way of thinking almost always gets them into trouble, and 9 times out of 10, costs them more money. In the end they try to blame the good mechanic or machinist for their 'cheapo' decisions.

I hate to say it, but some of the shops created these customers. How?
Ex: Lets say shop X quotes a 305 Chev rebuilt for $1600. This includes R & R.
What kind of job can a competent shop (you) do with $1600?
Say you quoted this same customer $2500 just for the rebuild, with all new parts (yes this includes retainers, springs, all guides, locks, rockers, pushrods...)
Naturally Mr Cheapo will choose shop X for the job. Because you tried to rip them off by at least $900. So you are now labeled as being expensive, and possibly a thief for quoting an honest job.
Now when Mr cheapo's junky $1600 engine (R&R included) smokes, or spins a bearing, knocks, has no guts...etc he will probably never buy another rebuilt engine. Because all rebuilds are now junk. In the end, you (the good machine shop) gets classified as another shop X, plus you're a ripoff artist to boot!
Remember, shop Xs are the kind of shops that trained Mr or Mrs Cheapo to become who they are. Since Mr Cheapo had "Think With The Pocket Syndrome" in him from the get go,
they become a match made in heaven. So let them be.

This is a no brainer, but here goes:
We do our best NOT to work for or with those kind of people. Sometimes it's hard to tell who they are from the start. But it's worth screening these types. In the end, it saves lots of aggravation. And we're able to focus on our good clients, and give them results they deserve. This way everyone's happy, including our better halves. I figure, there's still many good folks to work for out there, so why bother with headache types?

[Raceheads.ca]

There used to be several stock rebuilders around. Most of them at the time stuck a feeler gage down with the piston because they didn't want to invest the time to train people to measure cylinders.

Since the subject went this direction...
"Many moons ago, I (a car loving kid) hired a local machine shop to rebuild a set of SBC heads. The shop owner (one of those X kind) looked at me like I had a third eye, when I walked in with new valves, springs, retainers, and locks for the job. He damn near had a heart attack when I asked him to change all the valve guides. He wouldn't do it, and gave me every excuse in the book why he shouldn't. I guess the guy never heard of metal fatigue and parts wear. These same guys used to take apart old lifters, wash them in varsol, and sell them as 'rebuilt'.
And YES these guys also used a feeler gauge to check piston to wall clearance.

I took the heads to another shop for a proper rebuild. In case you should ask

[redcorvette]

Years ago I ordered a set of winter tires and rims from the local Canadian Tire for my 1985 Celebrity. I made a point of telling them it had the optional heavy duty suspension. They had no problem sending the first set back because they could easily see there was not enough holes in the rims. It turned ugly with the second set of rims when the service manager started yelling at me, " Our rims are right, its your car thats wrong!"

[cboggs]

This has been an interesting thread, .. and NOTHING about
our industry or business is easy, . .. not customers, not the work it's self, ..
not the thievery, and really not the attack by importers.

The "bad customer" stories can be funny, .. but the stuff that happens with
industry professionals or ones claiming to be professionals
FAR outweigh anything I've ever had a customer do.

c

[EthylCat]

I was talking with an engine builder friend just the other day and he told me that he got the the best piece of advise from an equipment salesman
he was bitching to about these types of customers.

"Eat their S*#t and take their money."

He told me he could not imagine how much money he would have lost if he did not tell himself this while dealing with that type of customer.

[Unkl Ian]

Some people don't have any trouble sleeping at night, no matter what.
Others are not so "lucky".

I was talking with an engine builder friend just the other day and he told me that he got the the best piece of advise from an equipment salesman
he was bitching to about these types of customers.

"Eat their S*#t and take their money."

He told me he could not imagine how much money he would have lost if he did not tell himself this while dealing with that type of customer.

[machine shop tom]

I have a sign in my shop posted that says...

"NOTICE: Prices subject to change according to customers attitude!"

I've used it a few times too!!

I have an unprinted price sheet labeled "Dink Fee". I use it to adjust the price accordingly when the customer warrants it.

tom

[machine shop tom]

I hope nobody minds if I repost this for the guys who may not have seen it. It fits in with the subject of this thread:

So this guy (and his lovely wife) come to the parts counter to bring back a "defective" carburetor (Edelbrock) that he bought several days prior.

The "lovely wife" states in no uncertain (and loud) terms that......

"THIS CARBURETOR IS DEFECTIVE AND I WANT IT REPLACED OR MY MONEY BACK RIGHT NOW!!! IT'S PUMPING GAS RIGHT INTO THE ENGINE AND THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT!!!"

Our store manager, somehow noticing what was happening to the counterman dealing with the situation, calmly explained that we would like to take the top off the carburetor to make sure there is no foreign object causing a flooding situation.

"I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY. WE'VE PUT $40 DOLLARS WORTH OF GAS THROUGH THIS CARBURETOR AND CHANGED THE OIL TWICE AND IT'S STILL PUMPING GAS THROUGH THE ENGINE. I WANT MY MONEY BACK NOW!!! IF I HAD BOUGHT THIS AT ADVANCED AUTO, I WOULD HAVE MY MONEY BACK BY NOW!!!", says the lovely wife.

By this time I was wondering what the bomblast was all about (heard it from the shop......) and wandered to the counter to see what was happening.

The manager was again explaning (in no uncertain terms) that we WERE going to look inside to determine what may be wrong..

Realizing that she was not going away, I said I'd take the carb back to the shop and take the top off right now and let them know what I found.....

"I DON'T TRUST YOU. WE'LL WATCH YOU. I WANT MY MONEY BACK......"

So, in the shop, as I'm taking the top off the carb, I am explaining that we need to see if anything was dislodged while manipulating the fuel line and is causing the needle valve not to seal properly.........

"THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THE INSTALLATION. IT DID IT RIGHT FROM THE START!!!"

With the top off the carb, I peer inside, expecting some silt, sawdust, taco seasoning, SOMETHING.........

Nothing. The carb is bone dry. Doesn't even smell like gas.

A small light dawns on me.

"Where did you have the fuel line hooked up?" asks I.

The husband (apparently he CAN talk), points "right there".

I take the top of the carb and point to the fuel inlet and exlain that THIS is where the fuel line is supposed to go. I then take the carb body, and explain that where HE had it hooked up, the PCV port, was not correct and that showed him how the fuel would be pumped......

Right......through......the.....engine.

Hubby stammers "they never told me that THAT was the wrong spot to hook it up......."

Lovely wife says "THEY NEVER FIGURED YOU TO BE AN IDIOT!!!"

Made my day.

tom