So what do you think?

1989TransAm · Post by **1989TransAm** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:35 pm

"If Obama's mother was an American, doesn't that make him a true American citizen, no matter where he was born? "

Not necessarily. It is more complicated than that.

enigma57 · Post by **enigma57** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:15 am

enigma57 wrote:
1989TransAm wrote:"Their arrogance only serves to strengthen our resolve"

They are a bunch of arrogant SOB's IMHO. Now he wants to speak to the school children. If my kids were of school age they would be absent that day.
Quite right, TransAm! We have already discussed this with our extended family to get their thoughts on it...... As well as the required 'assignments' to be completed by school children after viewing the 'Obama' address......

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Def ... ?id=662126

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26744.html

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13264495

My grandson (a seniour in high school this year) said he will view it and complete any required assignments if he must do so in order to graduate...... But if it is voluntary, he will opt out. He has a good head on his shoulders and he is very much aware that following high school...... In addition to learning the truth...... He must tell his liberal college professors what they want to hear for 4 years in order to get his degree. A sad state of affairs to be sure, but he has managed to get through 11 years of public schooling thus far without being indoctrinated into the leftist mindset, so we are sure he will be OK.

My younger grandaughters in grade school are another matter, though. Kids their age are highly impressionable and my youngest son and his wife have informed school officials that their daughters will not attend class that day unless they are excused from viewing the 'Obama' address and from participating in assignments related to it afterwards. If necessary, they are ready to pull my grandaughters out of school and home school them.

So no worries...... My sons and their wives are on top of this and will take whatever steps they must in order to keep their kids from being exposed to leftist indoctrination in school.

Best regards,

Harry

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Speedbump wrote:The timing is pretty poor, but I think the intentions are respectable. Most stedents won't see it anyway because most schools are required to have an alternative location/assignment for students/parents who don't want to participate in an activity that has the potential for religeous/political controversy. In todays education budget, the time constraint and the huge workload on teachers to provide such, most will just opt out.
But I do wonder if all you complainers did the same when HW and Reagan did the same thing? But then they were wealthy, white conservatives.

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enigma57 wrote: No complainer here, Speedbump. Just a concerned grandparent discussing with extended family, the options available to us. Our family are quite aware of the leftist influence and spin our kids and grandkids in public schools and university are confronted with daily. And as people who love our country and hold dear our traditional American values...... This is a real concern for us.

As to opting out, most school systems will not...... Whether for the practical reasons you stated...... Or for ideological reasons.

Regarding your mention of prior presidents who addressed children in classroom settings...... I will ignore your attempt at playing the 'race card' here. Ethnicity has nothing to do with this...... Nor should it. In my book, anyone who voted for...... Or against...... The current occupant of the Oval Office based upon his ethnicity...... Is racist. And forget the 'class envy' thing as well. No traction there. Mr. Soetoro (AKA 'Obama') has already amassed more material wealth by hook or crook than either former president you mentioned. So don't bother going there.

This has to do solely with whether or not our family want our impressionable young family members exposed to indoctrination by a radical leftist narcissist with a bully pulpit and an agenda to push. And the answer is simply 'No, we don't!'

Best regards,

Harry

P.S. >>>> FWIW...... My wife and I have met the Bush family on several occasions over the years at book signings and other functions. Fine folks. The Bushes are moderate centrists with some conservative leanings (which is why there are issues where we are in respectful disagreement politically). And President Reagan was a true conservative on most issues (I agreed with about 90% of what he did as president). As such, neither would use their position in government to indoctrinate impressionable young minds in their particular ideology. Conservatives and moderates don't engage in that. It is the purvey of the left.

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Speedbump wrote:I don't get it. Neither of them were rich? Only one was a conservative? BUT they both did give nationally televised speaches to students, Reagan's broadcast 3 times. Nobody really cared..except a few demo's who felt compelled to shoot of thier mouths. Now a president you guys don't like is doing the same thing, admittedly, the lesson plan thing was a little dumb, but harmless and you're all foaming at the mouth about it. The guy is trying to tell all students, but particularly his own ehtnicity, that you need to stay in school and that you can be a success. He offers himself as an example. A little narcissitc maybe, but his success from modest beginnings is something that can be aspired to. Good teachers try to do the same thing every day.
You can respectfully disagree with Bush 1 but you can't even call the current president by his correct name. Instead you use something straight from the double digit IQ blogs. Call it what you may, but your actions are louder than your words. And TA, I'm still waiting for the Odinga(?) and birther things to come to fruition. You presidential conspiracy folks are making the 9-11 conspiracy people look more normal.

Speedbump, I did my best to answer your questions in my prior posts. Please read them over again if you are serious about understanding why many parents have very real concerns about their children and their grandchildren being required to view the 'Obama' address in school and complete the required assignments after the viewing.

As Mike noted......

CamKing wrote:The Dems ripped H.W. Bush apart when he addressed the school children. They called it a gross waste of american's tax dollars.

On face value, it should be no big deal, but when you read Obama's history, and what he and his friends stand for, you have to worry.

I was not being intentionally disrespectful, Speedbump. My most sincere apologies if my last post came off sounding that way. The man's legal name is Barry Soetoro, though. It has been his legal name since he was adopted by his step-father Lolo Soetoro at age 5. He has never legally changed his name to 'Barack Hussein Obama'. He began calling himself by his birth father's name ('Obama') around the time he transferred to Occidental College on the mainland.

I conducted extensive research into his background (especially his early life) priour to the '08 elections and those are the facts. The long form of his Hawaiian birth certificate has not been made public at his request. Neither is there a record of his mother's marriage to his father. However, I have viewed copies of her divorce papers (1964) from his birth father and in those papers, he is identified as 'Barack Hussein Obama II'.

Following her subsequent marriage to Lolo Soetoro and her son's legal adoption at age 5, his name was legally changed to Barry Soetoro and that name appears on his school registration documents in Indonesia as well.

I have viewed copies of his mother's divorce papers (1980) from his step-father. In those documents, he is noted as being over 18 years of age and a student. There is no mention of a legal change of name for him nor for his younger sister. Only for his mother to use her maiden name of Dunham.

In short...... There is no subsequent record of his having legally changed his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack H. Obama (the name that appears on his 1992 marriage certificate to Michelle L. Robinson, Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. officiating).

Believe what you will regarding his present legal citizenship status. For I will not discuss that here on the forums. As TransAm so correctly noted, the question of whether he is in fact a 'natural-born citizen' and therefore eligible to hold the office of president is a very complex legal matter. And that will have to be settled in the courts. There are several legal challenges still pending in that regard.

With respect,

Harry

Speedbump · Post by **Speedbump** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:25 pm

Exactly my point! If you guys can see how stupid the demo's looked when they carried on about the first two speeches, why are so many of you willing to go to that same place? I just can't believe, as you all do, that he's that sinister.
I also was a high school teacher during both of the other speeches and I can tell you none of my students watched either during my class time for the reasons I mentioned before. You have to provide alternatives and it's a huge pain in the ass. It would have to be REALLY important for me to have gone to the trouble and I personally didn't see what a president could say that my students would buy in to. And it wasn't political, I didn't like Reagan at all but thought Bush 1 tried to do the right things. I probably wouldn't show Obama's speech either even though I think his circumstance could be a motivator for some students. I might listen or read the short version that is always supplied and paraphrase for about 2 minutes. "grew up lower middle class, product of broken home, single parent family. Was mixed ethnicity. Stayed in school, went to college with help from govt sponsored programs, made good grades, became President. If he can achieve a goal, so can you, ect."
If you all want to rail against indoctrination, you should worry about Channel 1. They are in about every classroom in the nation and your kids watch 10 minutes of TV every day, complete with commercials. They bought their way in with free technology to budget concious school districts and there are some positives but they do have your kids eyes and ears for 10 minutes per day, Monday through Friday.

Engguy · Post by **Engguy** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:35 pm

Speed bump, you were a teacher? If you did not teach a shop class in a voc tec or comm college, then you must have taught the average or typical brain washing and indoctrination classes that are taught in the school systems. This is one of the reasons the grades are so low, is that all "they" are worried about is the proper brain washing classes and not the science and math.
The main problem with the kids watching a speach from the Prez, is that the teacher sitting by, is there to teach the indoctrination and the latest lies, such and the enviro religion garbage, and they will be there to reinforce what the Prez says. Most all those kids do not have any kind of grip what so ever on reality, and what is really going down, so of course their little minds will be very easy to impress upon, what ever garbage that is spewed in the speach will come across as the full truth of the matter. And all this talk of how good or not the Prez is kinda gets the mind off the reall problem. The real problem is the agenda that they are moving us all towards.

1989TransAm · Post by **1989TransAm** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:02 pm

"The real problem is the agenda that they are moving us all towards."

Exactly. Van Jones is the poster child for this administration. Do some research on this individual. I would be interested in how he got a security clearance. However Speedbump being a liberal sees nothing wrong in the direction the Obama administration is taking the country. Hey a $10 trillion dollar debt is nothing to them.

Speedbump · Post by **Speedbump** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:24 pm

Ordinarily I would get angry at your insinuation about teachers, but I've come to expect that here. My response is, "until you've done it, you can't judge it." I taught technology at the high school level, mostly auto shop, and in 25 years, I never found a teacher pushing their own policical agenda. Unless you consider getting involved, making an informed choice and participating in the electoral process an agenda. Our goal, even the auto shop teacher, was to produce critical thinking, educated, articulate graduates who could contribute to society by getting a job or moving on to higher education then getting a job. A democracy depends on an educated, well informed, involved electorate. We tried to produce that. I see many of them in the community. I still talk to them, they are doing well and I get some of the credit. I hope sometime in your life you get to feel that kind of satisfaction and, yes, pride.
You don't like where we are headed now and I didn't like where we were headed before. I particularly dislike Cheney and his propensity for the use of force and his trashing of the Constitution to fit his own uses. I found those things amazing considering the man was a five time draft dodger during the Viet Nam era. We, as a country, survived it and we will survive this, maybe even better.
I hate this debt thing, but I don't know if there is/was a better way. My personal govt thrift/savings stock went from the tank ($9 per share) to currently almost $15 per share today. It's not the $22 it was when I retired, but it's getting better. So in my opinion, some of this stuff has to be working. And, TA, I am personally completely debt free. I own my house, shop, RV, toys and get by reasonably well having fun and drawing retirement checks. I hope you can say the same. Refering back to the "simple minded teacher", I do what I can by leading by example.

1989TransAm · Post by **1989TransAm** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:31 pm

"So in my opinion, some of this stuff has to be working. And, TA, I am personally completely debt free. I own my house, shop, RV, toys and get by reasonably well having fun and drawing retirement checks. I hope you can say the same."

My wife is a recently retired Los Angeles City Schools teacher. Her sister is still teaching high school math. I'm quite familiar with the goings on in the schools here in California and lets just say it is not pretty.

We are in the same boat retirement wise. If I was you I would be prepared for the other shoe to drop regarding your inverstments. As to some of this stuff working it is the American people and free enterprise that makes things work. We just need to keep the government at bay and out of our lives as much as posible.

"Ordinarily I would get angry at your insinuation about teachers"

Your are a fine one to talk with all the name calling you have done on this site including me a few times.

Post by **CamKing** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:55 am

Speedbump wrote: You have to provide alternatives

That is not the case in many school districts, including mine. If that was the case, I'd have no problem.
My children have no other option, but to watch his speech, and do the assignments. I'm sure I'll be getting a call from my son's principal by the end of the day. He'll be watching in his Honors English class, and his teacher is a big Obama supporter.

1989TransAm · Post by **1989TransAm** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:25 pm

The assignments was the big thing. Now that Obama has rescinded that I think he will go back to just encouraging the students to attend school etc. I don't have a problem with that but this guy needs a close eye kept on him.

Speedbump · Post by **Speedbump** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:34 pm

You can be a big supporter of someone and not let it influence the teaching. Professionals do that. Students will always ask who you support and it's easy enough to state your preference without pontificating. They also ask if you drink alcohol. Handled the same way. Yes or no and when it's legal for you, it's a choice you will face.
Agree the assignment thing was lame. I would bet it was advice from a non teacher trying to play teacher.

AdioSS · Post by **AdioSS** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:14 am

Speedbump, thanks for being a teacher.

Speedbump · Post by **Speedbump** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:03 pm

Appreciate it, but no need for thanks. I absolutely loved that job right up until the day I retired. I felt dumb-ass lucky to stumble into a career where I enjoyed going there.....and getting paid.

Engguy · Post by **Engguy** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:23 pm

Speedbump wrote:Appreciate it, but no need for thanks. I absolutely loved that job right up until the day I retired. I felt dumb-ass lucky to stumble into a career where I enjoyed going there.....and getting paid.

Just hope you didn't teach those kinda words to the little darlings.

Post by **CamKing** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:37 am

Speedbump wrote:and in 25 years, I never found a teacher pushing their own policical agenda.

You must be real lucky.
I had many teachers that pushed their political beliefs on their students.
At my children's school, it's beyond the teachers, and the administration pushes their politics.

Now that Obama has made the speach public, and changed the "Suggested" assignments, and our school district has instructed all their teachers to not give any opinions, I'm 100% in favor of the President's speech.

For my children, and many others, it's a complete waste of time, but for many urban black children without a father figure, Obama's words may really help.

Speedbump · Post by **Speedbump** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:19 pm

It's a little scary Mike, but we agree.

A down side of lower pay many people don't think of is part of the problem you describe. Since many of the best teacher candidates are not attracted to the profession because of pay, it does not increase in professionalism over time. Administrators (many of them crummy teachers who went back to school) are reluctant to lean on mediocre teachers because they know finding a better replacement is very iffy. I did occasionally, in a well timed stiuation, use a selected "bad" word. Students like to know you're human and occasional lapses in the "dog and pony show" can make you more effective.