more chinese ------

[Warpspeed]

We should force them to eat a big Ole juicy Rib-Eye. That is torture because they eat friggin goat!
Throw a set of panties over their heads(I prefer thongs) that is torture! Give them everything they want in every prison they reside. That must be torture!! Let them pray to the all mighty Allah when ever they get a hard on. I guess that must me torture.
Tony, get real for once because you haven't a clue what torture is. Never mind! Water boarding!!!! You or anyone that thinks it is close to torture needs you're fingers cut off then toes then tongue then genitals then come back here and have a discussion!!!! The only thing you can discuss is nothing because you have nothing.

The level of denial of reality in America just astounds me.

Anyhow, first we need to have the financial collapse, which is now very very close.

Then we need to see some bank runs and riots in America, and your own glorious military used "to maintain law and order".

Once Americans start firing on the US military, and upon each other, the fun should really start.

And guess what.
Nobody is coming to help you.

The world will rebuild Iraq, but nobody is coming to rebuild America after you destroy it yourselves.

[Ron E]

"Torture was the official policy of the Bush Cheney administration."

You are a lunatic. You have defamed the fine people serving in our armed forces. There is no use posting to someone so far out on the fringe. I'm done and I'm not going to lower myself to your level.

In Law, the one solid defence for defamation is telling the truth.

If I call a torturer a torturer, that is not defamation.

Ever heard of Abu Gharib ?

If you have never heard anything about the torture issues in Iraq, I suggest you do a little research.

What really sickens me though, is Americans supporting the use of torture.

Still, very soon when Obama declares martial law, and Blackwater, or Homeland Security connect you up to the wires, you might feel very glad in your own heart, that it is another American that pulls the switch.

Tony, why don't you define torture for me. It is now well known that we learned vital information through water boarding, possibly preventing a west coast repeat of 9/11. How am I certain of this as opposed to the government just BS'ing? It's fairly easy if you look at what's going on here. If the ACLU and Pelosi don't call BS on it, there is undeniable proof to the accuracy of the claim. You see, either would jump to an anti-Bush administration conclusion as fast as it appears you're willing to. But, I guess something as vicious as water boarding was still "torture" in your eyes. I guess it's the same as dragging mutilated corpses of your enemy through the streets. Maybe as bad as cutting out tongues, or the many other things that have been documented by the Islamish extremists.
My personal opinion, and so sorry if this "offends" you...I think any treatment our soldiers have endured should not be off the table for us. I don't think we should fight a half-ass war. It's war and it's going to get ugly. Do what it takes to shorten the duration of the ugliness. And, as down on this country as it's becoming impossible to ignore, that you really are, if the US military went into a conflict unbridled, with the goal of ending the conflict as quickly as possible, it wouldn't take very damn long.

Hide and watch as your twisted fantasies of this country falling apart don't quite meet your expectations. I hope you won't be disappointed, although I realize now, that's too much to ask. Question yourself on the passion of your convictions. You ignore any and everything that threatens it. "Level of denial" indeed.....

[Warpspeed]

Tony, why don't you define torture for me. It is now well known that we learned vital information through water boarding, possibly preventing a west coast repeat of 9/11. How am I certain of this as opposed to the government just BS'ing? It's fairly easy if you look at what's going on here. If the ACLU and Pelosi don't call BS on it, there is undeniable proof to the accuracy of the claim. You see, either would jump to an anti-Bush administration conclusion as fast as it appears you're willing to. But, I guess something as vicious as water boarding was still "torture" in your eyes. I guess it's the same as dragging mutilated corpses of your enemy through the streets. Maybe as bad as cutting out tongues, or the many other things that have been documented by the Islamish extremists.
My personal opinion, and so sorry if this "offends" you...I think any treatment our soldiers have endured should not be off the table for us. I don't think we should fight a half-ass war. It's war and it's going to get ugly. Do what it takes to shorten the duration of the ugliness. And, as down on this country as it's becoming impossible to ignore, if the US military went into a conflict unbridled, with the goal of ending the conflict as quickly as possible, it wouldn't take very damn long.

A well stated argument Ron.

But Pelosi and many other liars in Congress were voted in on the belief that once they controlled Congress, they would oppose Bush, and end the war in Iraq.

If you want to learn about torture and war crimes, I suggest you study the Nuremberg trials, and the wording of the Geneva Convention about treatment of POWs.

The basis of any humanity lies in JUSTICE, and even more important MERCY.,
Do unto others.....etc.

Many people were, and still are being held and tortured in secret American run prisons (outside America) without being charged with any crime, and without access to any legal assistance. The whole thing is illegal and immoral, which is one of several very powerful reasons why no other nation now supports America.

If that is fighting for freedom and democracy, no other nation wants any of it.

America does have the right to determine it's own future, but just be very clear what a future for America without any humanity, law, or natural justice involves.
Your rights are being eroded at a frightening pace, but where is the rage against your own government ?

[Ron E]

No sir Tony. If you want to learn about torture, have a family member who was a POW of the Japanese during WWII, who after great coaxing, shortly before his death told me about it.
I can say this. I know of nothing that approaches what he endured going on now...other than the Islmo-freako's you're so damn disturbed we waterboarded. Save you meetings and gatherings and conventions. When there's war involved, I'm a realist. Nobody has been attacked because it is known the attacked country will retaliate with 10 times the force and with all of the viciousness. If that pisses the world off, so be it. I do not feel the need for a consensus of the world.
You said your self if the US crumbled it would have basically had little to no affect on you. Just do a little searching on the major medical advances over the last 100 years. See where the majority came from. But, you say little affect on the rest of the world. Check the foreign aide globally and see where the majority comes from. Tony, you are entitled to your bias. However, to ignore responses, while suggesting all who disagree as being in denial is less than convincing.

[Warpspeed]

Ron,

If America is so full of goodness and is such a leading light in truth justice and and morality, why does America now have no friends or allies left ?

In fact your former friends all now flock to assist and support your enemy (Iraq).

[JCR]

Folks, poster "Warpspeed" is a troll.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

[Warpspeed]

That is a cop out JCR, and you know it.

[enigma57]

Well, Tony...... As I noted earlier......

...... It is just that nobody in America can actually tell me what this war in Iraq is all about......

I told you what it was about, Tony. Go back and read my priour posts. When you have done so and are ready for a substantive discussion of this topic...... We will continue.

However, if your purpose here is to ignore the facts and simply continue to make inflammatory pronouncements having little, if any, basis in fact...... Our discourse here (yours and mine) is concluded.

With respect,

Harry

It seems we have come to a parting of the ways.

Adios,

Harry