engine oil recommendations when using alcohol for fuel

af2 · Post by **af2** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:10 pm

Hendrens Racing Engines wrote:We have used Royal purple for over 15 years in all alky applications,for the guys on a tight budget just drain the oil and heat it in a pan to 250 deg.that will remove the water and you can re use the oil.we have some circle track applications where the customer used the oil for a full season,just changed filters every 5 races.
We have used it in blown and turbo applications as well,in my opinion it is one of the best oils for alky out there.Bill

One more time!
I have a problem there but if it works who cares!

jaker · Post by **jaker** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:20 pm

my main problem is condensate in the motor! will a 4 vane vacuum pump cure this, or at least reduce it to a manageable level?

Hendrens Racing Engines · Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:48 am

If your getting that amount of alky in the oil you need to lean it down,we have circle track engines that run for weeks with the same oil.Bill

GPA · Post by **GPA** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:43 pm

I think you should use oil wich can be mixed with alcohol. We are using vegetable(castor) based oils, they do not leave sludge behind.

rskrause · Post by **rskrause** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:12 pm

With my NA alky EFI bracket car the oil is milky after the first pass. After a couple of passes though, it clears up. I believe that once it gets hot enough, the alky evaporates out of the oil. Last year I made about 75 1/4m. passes and 10-15 runs on the chassis dyno. I changed the oil once in mid-season. On inspection this winter, the bearings were fine and I just left them in. The leakdown was 5-7% and I decided not do a complete teardown, a first for me with a race motor. That was with Brad Penn 20W-50.

Rich

RW TECH · Post by **RW TECH** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:06 pm

jaker wrote:can someone suggest a grade and brand of oil for a 700hp bbc naturally aspirated running on alochol. after only 2 or 3 passes the oil is so milky i have to change it! ive been using castrol 20w50.

If your oil is milky after a couple of passes your fuel is way too rich. Are you running a mechanical injection system?

One of my guys runs alky in a carbureted BBC, and the first thing he does before racing is warm the engine up completely with the cap off the dry sump tank to boil off moisture. He has a ball valve plumbed into the intake plenum to induce a huge vacuum leak to help speed up the warm up process. You can do the same thing with injection by partially closing the fuel shutoff valve.

The guys change oil about twice a season and engine/parts look excellent every time we freshen it.

If you can get it, Ford Motorcraft has a good oil that's designed specifically for alcohol-fuled engines (XO-10W30-FFV). Originally, this oil was designed for their methanol-fuel engine program and it is very capable of "surrounding" moisture.

s/c 266 · Post by **s/c 266** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:54 pm

rskrause wrote:
s/c 266 wrote:
rskrause wrote: What was the nature of the test?

Richard
I paid for and had lab testing on VIRGIN samples. Blackstone Labs. Then had the data and Blackstone's comments verified by an industry race oil consultant. I also tested VR-1 and it was not too bad for a cheaper local shelf oil..
PS The BP had a few issues that after reviewed forced me to not even use it. Case is still in my shop some place
I am sorry, but I guess I wan't being clear. I was wondering what parameters were measured and how was the testing performed? I am having a hard time "designing" a test to answer the question asked here unless it involved running the oil in a blown alky engine and the doing a teardown and detailed inspection along with an oil analysis. It seems unlikely that someone went to these lengths. My answer, and I suspect most of them posted here, was based on experience, IOW stating what has worked for us. If there is a better basis for deciding, that would realy be useful. It seems that you are speaking of some kind of oil analysis? What did they measure and did it involve used samples from blown alky engines?

Richard

Sorry forgot about this thread.
Vern it was more than the insolubles. It was the design of the additive package and how it looked relative to other race oils.

Here take a look

I run XRP 10W-40 in my race engine

rskrause · Post by **rskrause** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:57 pm

Paul: maybe I am being dense, but how does that analysis tell us the oil tested was good, or not good, for use with alcohol?

Richard

s/c 266 · Post by **s/c 266** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:08 pm

Richard, The insolubles make it unsuitable for any race eng in my opinion. It's new oil, it should be pure.

The HIGH Sodium just seemed odd. It's not in RP, VR-1 or the old or new Kendall GT-1.

rskrause · Post by **rskrause** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:10 pm

s/c 266 wrote:Richard, The insolubles make it unsuitable for any race eng in my opinion. It's new oil, it should be pure.

The HIGH Sodium just seemed odd. It's not in RP, VR-1 or the old or new Kendall GT-1.

OK, thanks. My bearings still did look great though!

Richard

s/c 266 · Post by **s/c 266** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:16 pm

Here's the 1st change or two on a 14.5:1 555 with meth injection. Royal Purple race oil 41

BTW These are mild bracket Eng's and the way I built them, manage the fuel and race them I never have meth of in measurable amount in the fuel. I end the race day on gas and bring the water temp to 200. I also run a 0.84 avg Lambda fuel curve so I'm sure the fuel is about right.

monte · Post by **monte** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:37 am

jaker wrote:can someone suggest a grade and brand of oil for a 700hp bbc naturally aspirated running on alochol. after only 2 or 3 passes the oil is so milky i have to change it! ive been using castrol 20w50.

I have been using castrol edge mineral oil 25/50w ,

434sb kinsler injected 820hp, i use a petterson wet vac external oil pump the vacuum pulls the excess alcohol away from oil to catch can.I get about 35 passes before changing oil.

Ed-vancedEngines · Post by **Ed-vancedEngines** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:00 am

A matter that could be a problem wit any oil or lube with the brand name of Castrol. Castrol is a marketing company that does not refine or mfg any oils. When you are buying the brand you are buying a lubricant that is made somewhere by someone but no way to know who. At different time intervals it can be made by a variety of producers for Castrol.

When anyone is considering buying any oil that is not synthetic that is advertised as thinner W of 10, you might ask yourself how they got it to be thinner than the minimum capability of refining. Usually when the minimum of additives are added such as zinc, potassium, phosphurus, calcium and others that will bring the W up to a 15 viscosity. So how are we getting racing oils with a w of 5 or a w of 0? I know what my line of thinking is. Something is thinning it down.

Ed