Hi Guys,
Can someone recommend a quality do it yourself engine coating supplier ?
Need to thermal barrier coat, & friction coat some pistons, heads, valves..
I have just used our local guy and quality is not near where it should be..
What is current thinking on how much to coat a drag engine ?
I am going to do piston domes, & skirts.
Gudgeon pins,
Exhaust port, & chamber, valve heads & backs, & friction coat the stems.
I am not sure about a couple of things ?
Should I coat the entire intake tract ?( Thermal ) or will this cause air & fuel separation problems ? ( Race gas engine )
Do I coat the piston pin bores ? or just the gudgeons.
I am going to thermal coat from chamber right up through ports, what happens to my nice new sharp valve job?
Should I try to protect it, or do I need to get it recut ?
Will stones be ok, or does it need a cutter to get through ceramic ?
Same thing for the back of my valves, as I am going to thermal coat there too.
Maybe just recut the mating surfaces on the valve & seat ?
I can’t send stuff into a good shop in States as I’m in Australia, and it’s too hard to freight over and back without damage or something going missing.
Anything I should be careful of when doing this coating ?
Sorry for long post, but I need to get this right. Thanks.
Gary....
Current thinking on engine coatings
Moderator: Team
Techline Coatings. Good stuff!
http://www.techlinecoatings.com/
I usually leave the valves in when coating the chamber and semi-curing that coating on in the oven before starting the ports. I tape off the coated chamber and tape off the fresh valve job down to the last angle in the seat. I have had problems in the past with chipping the coating when cutting the seats, so I have gone the taping route. Maybe a stone will grind off the coating without chipping???
Bo
http://www.techlinecoatings.com/
I usually leave the valves in when coating the chamber and semi-curing that coating on in the oven before starting the ports. I tape off the coated chamber and tape off the fresh valve job down to the last angle in the seat. I have had problems in the past with chipping the coating when cutting the seats, so I have gone the taping route. Maybe a stone will grind off the coating without chipping???
Bo
Last edited by Boport on Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Techline
You might want to look at Techline coatings.
http://www.techlinecoatings.com/
I've used their black satin exhaust coating with good success. Some of their coatings require baking at about 400 deg F and some are air dry, they supply both home shop and professional coating shops.
Their tech support folks should be able to answer your questions about applications. They have recently been reformulating some of their products to avoid hazardous material shipping fees so that might help for you shipping out side the U.S.
Proper surface prep and mixing of the products are probably the key things to watch for. The black satin product for example has a heavy component that likes to settle out and you need to get that mixed back in without putting lots of air in the mix. You need to completely de-grease the surface and they suggest sand blast surface prep with a sharp grit like virgin aluminum oxide to get some "tooth" in the surface.
It sprays pretty well with a standard automotive spray gun in my experience.
Larry
http://www.techlinecoatings.com/
I've used their black satin exhaust coating with good success. Some of their coatings require baking at about 400 deg F and some are air dry, they supply both home shop and professional coating shops.
Their tech support folks should be able to answer your questions about applications. They have recently been reformulating some of their products to avoid hazardous material shipping fees so that might help for you shipping out side the U.S.
Proper surface prep and mixing of the products are probably the key things to watch for. The black satin product for example has a heavy component that likes to settle out and you need to get that mixed back in without putting lots of air in the mix. You need to completely de-grease the surface and they suggest sand blast surface prep with a sharp grit like virgin aluminum oxide to get some "tooth" in the surface.
It sprays pretty well with a standard automotive spray gun in my experience.
Larry
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440SBC
I would like to hear some experiences with intake runner coatings, in terms of Dry Film Lubrication.
I'm worried about fuel drop out, but I'm being told by some that the increased velocity from the low friction coating helps reduce fuel drop.
Any experiences? I don't know about Darin at Reher Morrison, but the fellow I was speaking with did have some Pro Stock sheet metal manifolds that he was coating with the dry film lube. I'd like to hear some experiences before I make the decision.
I'm assuming rpm range might play into this??? If it were a high rpm engine of around 9-10000 rpm, less likely for fuel drop????
I'm worried about fuel drop out, but I'm being told by some that the increased velocity from the low friction coating helps reduce fuel drop.
Any experiences? I don't know about Darin at Reher Morrison, but the fellow I was speaking with did have some Pro Stock sheet metal manifolds that he was coating with the dry film lube. I'd like to hear some experiences before I make the decision.
I'm assuming rpm range might play into this??? If it were a high rpm engine of around 9-10000 rpm, less likely for fuel drop????
Good post 440 SBC, I also would like to know about solid dry film vs thermal barrier coat on entire intake tract, maybe at more moderate RPMs though 4 - 7000 rpm.
Any differences reqd. alcohol vs race gas with intake coating choice ?
Also read on tech lines web site some thermal coatings actually induce detonation ???
Gary.
Any differences reqd. alcohol vs race gas with intake coating choice ?
Also read on tech lines web site some thermal coatings actually induce detonation ???
Gary.
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pocketchange
Coatings and such..
Baking a cake is something to do at home. With parts cost, I'd save my hard earned dollars rather than attempt a DIY coating project.
I understand locating a responsible coater. MY CHOICE: Calico Coatings.
Jerry Ehlert and Tracy Trotter are dedicated to the coating industry and have a track record to be VERY proud of.
Things Not to Coat:
Piston Pins and Pin holes. It has to do with heat dissipation.
All gasket surfaces are a no no.
Cam lobe (for a roller motor) the rollers won't roll, no lifters but lifter bores are good.
NOTE: The last time I checked, dry film lubs w/alcohol is a no no.
Most everything else is fair game.
A basic start would be valve springs and bearings. Pistons would be a good next step, then cylinder heads, etc., etc..
Good Luck,
pc
I understand locating a responsible coater. MY CHOICE: Calico Coatings.
Jerry Ehlert and Tracy Trotter are dedicated to the coating industry and have a track record to be VERY proud of.
Things Not to Coat:
Piston Pins and Pin holes. It has to do with heat dissipation.
All gasket surfaces are a no no.
Cam lobe (for a roller motor) the rollers won't roll, no lifters but lifter bores are good.
NOTE: The last time I checked, dry film lubs w/alcohol is a no no.
Most everything else is fair game.
A basic start would be valve springs and bearings. Pistons would be a good next step, then cylinder heads, etc., etc..
Good Luck,
pc
Gary, I have myself been looking into the coating services that are available locally. I haven't been overly impressed with what I have seen so far. My friend's shop gets his done through Crankshaft Rebuilders , and while something like a piston skirt coating is quite inexpensive through these people, it doesn't look that fantasitc either. The coating starts to scuff off relatively quickly, so I would have to wonder if it's doing it's job at all. There is Competition Coatings in Nth Coburg, but these may be the people that Cranky's are using. I believe that HPC in Leongatha are still doing piston coatings, but I have never really looked into them recently.
AL...
AL...
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Steen Racing
coatings
I would be more inclined to investigate the coatings they make that shed oil because they do not allow it to wet the surface. I assume they would work the same way with gasoline.I would like to hear some experiences with intake runner coatings, in terms of Dry Film Lubrication.
I understand the NASCAR guys are hard coating wrist pins with good success. They are not using a dry lubricant per se but a near diamond hard coating called casidiam.Things Not to Coat:
Piston Pins and Pin holes. It has to do with heat dissipation.
http://www.casidiam.com/appn_3.htm
Larry
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440SBC
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pocketchange
Intake Runners
Intake runners are a good start, then the bottom with a ceramic to shed heat and you could powder coat the exterior in some wild ass color.
The ONLY problem with intake runners being coated... is rules.
Don't get caught if there are concerning the use of coatings.
Bye the way, there are clear polymers (no pigment)... did I say that?
Question:
Does coating the inside of a fill can upset NASCAR officials?
The ONLY problem with intake runners being coated... is rules.
Don't get caught if there are concerning the use of coatings.
Bye the way, there are clear polymers (no pigment)... did I say that?
Question:
Does coating the inside of a fill can upset NASCAR officials?
.I work at a professional coating shop. This isn't something that should be attempted in the back yard, as it is pretty touchy stufff that needs to be applied correctly as major engine damage could occur if the coating isn't applied correctly.
For now, I'll give you guys a general guideline for the intended use of thermal barrier coatings.
Basically, anywhere that you would like to retain or reflect heat, a thermal barrier coating should be used. There are a couple different types of these coating that are intended for different levels of heat. Examples of this type of coatings uses would be:
Intake ports- To help reduce heat contamination of the aircharge from the internal port walls. Cooler more dense air charge.
Combustion chambers and piston crowns- To retain as many BTU's as possible in the combustion area to drive the piston. Less heat energy being absorbed by the cooling system and oil system.
Valve faces- Same as above, witht he addition of keeping heat out of the valve stem, guide, and up to the retainer and eventually to the valvespring. Longer guide and valve spring life. More energy retained in combustion.
Exhaust ports/Headers- Keeps more heat in the system, therefore increasing velocity and potentially increasing scavenging effects. Another good use would be for a turbocharged application, where the increased velocity could help spool the turbocharger faster.
All of the above is potential, whether or not your engine could gain horspower from the coating is in the air. In theory it will, but whether or not it shows up as a substantial increase in power on the dyno really depends on the application. For example a non-cross flow head would probably pick up a noticeable increse in power by thermal barrier coating the 2 manifolds. There are a ton of other uses of the coating that I didn't mention above, you can put it just about everywhere. We have had great success with the coatings, many hands on experiences where parts are cooler, and parts have lasted longer. The stuff works.
Bo
For now, I'll give you guys a general guideline for the intended use of thermal barrier coatings.
Basically, anywhere that you would like to retain or reflect heat, a thermal barrier coating should be used. There are a couple different types of these coating that are intended for different levels of heat. Examples of this type of coatings uses would be:
Intake ports- To help reduce heat contamination of the aircharge from the internal port walls. Cooler more dense air charge.
Combustion chambers and piston crowns- To retain as many BTU's as possible in the combustion area to drive the piston. Less heat energy being absorbed by the cooling system and oil system.
Valve faces- Same as above, witht he addition of keeping heat out of the valve stem, guide, and up to the retainer and eventually to the valvespring. Longer guide and valve spring life. More energy retained in combustion.
Exhaust ports/Headers- Keeps more heat in the system, therefore increasing velocity and potentially increasing scavenging effects. Another good use would be for a turbocharged application, where the increased velocity could help spool the turbocharger faster.
All of the above is potential, whether or not your engine could gain horspower from the coating is in the air. In theory it will, but whether or not it shows up as a substantial increase in power on the dyno really depends on the application. For example a non-cross flow head would probably pick up a noticeable increse in power by thermal barrier coating the 2 manifolds. There are a ton of other uses of the coating that I didn't mention above, you can put it just about everywhere. We have had great success with the coatings, many hands on experiences where parts are cooler, and parts have lasted longer. The stuff works.
Bo