When are you switching to synthetic?

[MadBill]

I have seen many event winning and record holding engines broken in with synthetic oil. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

I agree. I'm just too cheap to do the short initial change using the synthetic

You could always sell the slightly used oil, with full disclosure of course. Someone who is willing to buy it is probably using pretty awful oil anyway, and extending the drain intervals unmercifully. Heard of this guy that used to change the oil in his truck weekly at ~1000 miles and sell it half price to a list of customers. Everybody was happy. Concatenation at it's finest.

Better than buying used oats anyway...

[Roundybout]

Tetraethyllead is not the same as Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates.

The lead also has some octane increasing benefits. It also leaves deposits the Zinc doesn't. Although the lead will kill you eventually

[David Redszus]

Tetraethyllead is not the same as Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates.

You are correct, I mistakenly substituted lead for zinc.

ZDDP does not contain lead. Zinc oxide is added to change the pH of the phosphate compound; it has no real operational effect on the additive anti-wear properties. Since its invention in 1944, ZDDP has become one of the most popular lubricant additives.

ZDDP acts on much the same way as TEL or TML, in that it is activated by temperature. But ZDDP, once broken down, produces a protective film that inhibits metal to metal contact. Originally intended as an anti-oxidant, it was found to prevent plane bearing corrosion, a major source of bearing wear. ZDDP is consumed with use and must be replaced on a regular basis.

The level of ZDDP in motor oil is limited to 1.5% due to its effect on emissions systems, and up to 3% in hydraulic fluids.

Once upon a time I thought I understood lubricants and their additives. But scientific progress is swift and so much new technology regarding lubricants has been developed it is very hard to keep up. Now, I find the right oil company technical specialist, provide a detailed description the application, and await his (or hers) recommendation.

What I have managed to retain is the fact that additive pckages are more important than base stocks but they must be matched correctly.

[AC sports]

So back on topic guys. ....anywhere from day one fresh engine, to 5,000km. I guess no definitive answer. I'll keep my routine then. 500 mls on mineral oil then synthetic.

[Schurkey]

Zinc oxide is added to change the pH of the phosphate compound;

Zinc Oxide in daily life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLp4DZmPqYE

God bless the Kentucky Fried Movie.

[Krooser]

Lake Speed from Driven oil told our group at his oil seminar that you can run your break-in oil 1000 miles then switch.

Did anyone ask him WHY you'd do that? There is no reason for that.


We also need to agree that Group III synthetics are NOT true synthetics anywhere in the world except in this I'll run country.

Big difference between Group III and Group IV and V synthetics and I wouldn't think of using the latter for start up.

He said, and I agree, that you don't have to be scared to run break-in oil in a fresh engine a few miles before you change it. I've done it every time I've redone an engine...and I run the race motors two or three nights with the break-in oil, too. Might change the filter...

No one has ever bought a new car and changed the oil at the dealer before they drove home.

Just preference...heck we used to run our stock cars three nights on racing oil then save it for our daily drivers!

[ClassAct]

Lake Speed from Driven oil told our group at his oil seminar that you can run your break-in oil 1000 miles then switch.

Did anyone ask him WHY you'd do that? There is no reason for that.


We also need to agree that Group III synthetics are NOT true synthetics anywhere in the world except in this I'll run country.

Big difference between Group III and Group IV and V synthetics and I wouldn't think of using the latter for start up.

He said, and I agree, that you don't have to be scared to run break-in oil in a fresh engine a few miles before you change it. I've done it every time I've redone an engine...and I run the race motors two or three nights with the break-in oil, too. Might change the filter...

No one has ever bought a new car and changed the oil at the dealer before they drove home.

Just preference...heck we used to run our stock cars three nights on racing oil then save it for our daily drivers!

Ok, I guess I'm lost. You are now saying a "few miles" is the same as 1000 miles. They are not the same.

[Schurkey]

Ok, I guess I'm lost. You are now saying a "few miles" is the same as 1000 miles. They are not the same.

Sure they are...when typical oil life is 3000+ miles.

My 03 Trailblazer goes 13,000 miles, gets a filter-only change and top-off, then goes another 13,000 miles (26,000 miles total) before getting an oil change and filter. I have taken oil samples at 26K miles and had the lab analyze them: the oil is "Fit for further use".

A non-feedback fuel injection engine, with a non-overdrive transmission is not likely to get by with 26000 mile oil changes...but DEPENDING ON CARB FUEL-CURVE and overall gearing, 4K--6K is not out of the question. 1/4 to 1/6 of that is "a few miles".

[cjperformance]

New engine. Running in on mineral oil atm.
When are most of you guys switching to synthetic? I usually do it after 500 mls or so but noticed lots of people waiting til 5000+ mls?

What sort of engine?
Flat tappet cam- stock, mild, agressive?
Carb or well setup efi?

Personally i feel with flat tappet cam stuff needs are different and depend on the cam lobe and springs in question.

Apart from flat tappet and assuming the tune is correct whatever makes you feel good is fine, 50miles, 500 miles or you can put synthetic in it from the get go. Cleanliness, parts and machining quality and tune have a lot more to do with break in than syn or mineral oil !

[Krooser]

Did anyone ask him WHY you'd do that? There is no reason for that.


We also need to agree that Group III synthetics are NOT true synthetics anywhere in the world except in this I'll run country.

Big difference between Group III and Group IV and V synthetics and I wouldn't think of using the latter for start up.

He said, and I agree, that you don't have to be scared to run break-in oil in a fresh engine a few miles before you change it. I've done it every time I've redone an engine...and I run the race motors two or three nights with the break-in oil, too. Might change the filter...

No one has ever bought a new car and changed the oil at the dealer before they drove home.

Just preference...heck we used to run our stock cars three nights on racing oil then save it for our daily drivers!

Ok, I guess I'm lost. You are now saying a "few miles" is the same as 1000 miles. They are not the same.

To me 1000 miles is a few miles....I've been a trucker for 47 years. I drive a Peterbilt with 2,500,000 miles. I've likely backed up more miles than you'll ever drive.

[ClassAct]

He said, and I agree, that you don't have to be scared to run break-in oil in a fresh engine a few miles before you change it. I've done it every time I've redone an engine...and I run the race motors two or three nights with the break-in oil, too. Might change the filter...

No one has ever bought a new car and changed the oil at the dealer before they drove home.

Just preference...heck we used to run our stock cars three nights on racing oil then save it for our daily drivers!

Ok, I guess I'm lost. You are now saying a "few miles" is the same as 1000 miles. They are not the same.

To me 1000 miles is a few miles....I've been a trucker for 47 years. I drive a Peterbilt with 2,500,000 miles. I've likely backed up more miles than you'll ever drive.

Don't flatter yourself.

No one in their right mind considers 1000 miles a few miles. That's dumb. You don't get to redefine word to fit your life.

And of course, you didn't ask him

[Roundybout]

Instead of miles go by heat cycles. ZZDP on flat tappets, a few heat cycles is the same as 100 as far as break-in is concerned. Internal engine components, after brought up to temp and run up and down the RPM range under load you won't see much more break-in wear. Next cold start anything not yet clearenced will be by the time it's brought up to temp again. Personally 500 miles or so it gets the oil it's going to run with for the duration of its life. If only for peace of mind knowing what quality oil is in there from now on.

[KnightEngines]

My procedure is mineral for start up, bed it in on the dyno bringing the oil temp up to around 190 deg, letting it cool below 140 deg, then again up to temp & cool.
Then a couple of short pulls to find home & get timing & jetting in the ballpark.
Then change to fresh mineral oil & new filter for the tuning part of the dyno session.
That oil stays in the motor when it goes in the car, next oil change can be synthetic.

[Lizardracing]

My engine guys say “we filled the pan already with synthetic, if it ain’t broke in by turn one, bring it back”.
They have done around 1 per week for the last 30 years so I’d guess if it mattered, they would see em but they never come back till the snow flies.
To save me the headache, I do what the builder tells me. Whatever that is, agree or not. I figure they are more willing to help if something goes wrong if I do it their way.

[shoedoos]

Schurkey, where are you plugging the toilet roll filter in and out of the engine? And are you running the normal screw-on filter as well? What toilet roll are you using or do you get replacements from Frantz?