Hydraulic roller lifters: Morel 5044 vs Isky/Johnson needless

[Mikej26]

Looking for opinions on these 2 versions of SBC hydraulic roller lifters.

The morel 5044 is their high rpm/race level lifter.

The isky/Johnson hpx gold series needless lifter is their premier hydraulic roller lifter.

Both are claimed to handle up to 200 or so lbs of seat pressure and 500 or so lbs open pressure.

Both are intended to rev 7500 +

What are the pros and cons of either?

What are your experiences with them?

[Scott]

Looking for opinions on these 2 versions of SBC hydraulic roller lifters.

The morel 5044 is their high rpm/race level lifter.

The isky/Johnson hpx gold series needless lifter is their premier hydraulic roller lifter.

Both are claimed to handle up to 200 or so lbs of seat pressure and 500 or so lbs open pressure.

Both are intended to rev 7500 +

What are the pros and cons of either?

What are your experiences with them?

I've had customers come through my Dyno who have used both brands your referencing , accept they were on Ford Cleveland engines .
The ISKY HPX were clear winners in my view .
Morel were noisy and on several builds needed to be replaced . They rpm ok but not as nice !
ISKY with the 185/535 max spring.
Hyd roller cam 7200 rpm large 2.190" Cleveland int valve not a problem . Whisper Quiet .
180 /500 small diameter dual PAC spring package or similar PSI
I also use and recommend Mike Jones Hyd roller cams . Clear winner

[Mikej26]

Full disclosure, the reason I'm asking is because I currently have the Morel 5044's in my sbc. Running 165#'s on the seat and 450ish open if I recall correctly. Thing is noisy as hell, like Cummins diesel noisy. Way more than the loud sewing machine sound I'd expect. And it's not uniform, definitely more noise from some lifters than others.

Engines runs very strong, but when its clattering at lower rpm its definitely rougher so I'm certain I'm getting different valve timing dynamics between cylinders. Have tried every preload under the sun with only temporary relief. Have checked geometry, push rod clearance, wear on all components and all looks good. Tried different oil viscosities and it changes the severity of the noise somewhat, but certainly isnt a solution. Oil pressure is solid so I'm 99% sure my noises are all top end related.

Side note, I am running T&D's entry level shaft rockers. I can't see how shafts wouldn't be quiter than stud mounted rockers. I'm not sure if they're also inherently noisy as I've never ran them before and I think most people running shafts are probably running solid lifters so any noise they make may just be attributed to the solid cam by most people.

Would like to know you're experiences with shaft rockers noise.

And if you think switching over to the Isky/johnson hpx is a no brainer to solve my issues.

Thanks for any input

[ProPower engines]

I have used morel lifters by customers choice and every time there has been an issue with noisy valve train.
Switched to the Isk/johnson race lifters and they were dead quiet!
I think that some lifter sellers claim they are Morel lifters but recently I had a customer that claimed he had Morel
lifters he got from howards. After a call to howards I am told they are not really Morels but made for them and are designed
by the person that designed the morel lifters. This again was regarding noisy lifters.

Same things were considered such as oil weights and types/brands and in every case the Isky/Johnson race lifters
solved the noise issues.
These were not all the same brand of engine either all cases were in GM sm blk. and BBC as well as Ford and Mopar LA B RB and gen IIi hemi's.
I have used the Isky/Johnson race lifters for 30+ years and never had any issues with noise so my vote is for the Isky lifters.

[Mikej26]

I have used morel lifters by customers choice and every time there has been an issue with noisy valve train.
Switched to the Isk/johnson race lifters and they were dead quiet!
I think that some lifter sellers claim they are Morel lifters but recently I had a customer that claimed he had Morel
lifters he got from howards. After a call to howards I am told they are not really Morels but made for them and are designed
by the person that designed the morel lifters. This again was regarding noisy lifters.

Same things were considered such as oil weights and types/brands and in every case the Isky/Johnson race lifters
solved the noise issues.
These were not all the same brand of engine either all cases were in GM sm blk. and BBC as well as Ford and Mopar LA B RB and gen IIi hemi's.
I have used the Isky/Johnson race lifters for 30+ years and never had any issues with noise so my vote is for the Isky lifters.

Well that is certainly interesting as the 5044's I'm running currently that are giving me issues are from Howards cams sold under part #91170.

[67RS502]

I have Jesel shafts on my 420sbc with Morels, they are noisy at cruise speeds, around 2000-2500rpm, can hear them clanking away if driving near a wall.
My 490sbc has only been on the dyno, but has Johnson lifters with Jesel shafts, it was dead quiet at any rpm.
So I don't see the shafts having an effect on the noise of HR lifters.
Crane lifters are good too.

[Mikej26]

I have Jesel shafts on my 420sbc with Morels, they are noisy at cruise speeds, around 2000-2500rpm, can hear them clanking away if driving near a wall.
My 490sbc has only been on the dyno, but has Johnson lifters with Jesel shafts, it was dead quiet at any rpm.
So I don't see the shafts having an effect on the noise of HR lifters.
Crane lifters are good too.

That’s good to hear. My thinking is that if the hydraulic lifters are holding or recovering properly that there wouldn’t be any lash developing and therefore things ought to stay pretty quite up top with the shaft rockers. I’ve gone ahead and ordered a set of the Isky/Johnson HPX lifters. Fingers crossed that it’s the solution

[RW TECH]

Maybe some lifters are less sensitive vs others, but I'm surprised at how everyone seems to be ignoring the cam lobe as a culprit.

[427dart]

Those Isky/Johnson lifters ought to be good at over a grand per set. But why does it cost that much for a quiet lifter for a street/strip hyd. roller cam?

[ProPower engines]

Those Isky/Johnson lifters ought to be good at over a grand per set. But why does it cost that much for a quiet lifter for a street/strip hyd. roller cam?

Well this is an issue all car guys face. if you want a good quality part they are more costly then a copied cheaper part.
the fact is you get the best lifter made hands down.
If the cost scares you then sell the car and ride a moped because the lifter industry today is not like it was 30 years ago.
Quality has been replaced with cheaper labor costs and greater accepted tolerance levels.
Noisy lifters are just plain out of tolerance and allow for the bleed down to be excessive causing rattling valve train.

If you have confirmed the cam profile is not lofting the lifter off the lobes from being too aggressive or allowing the lobe to drop the lifter causing the noise then you need a better quality lifter that has less bleed rate.

Many guys have complained here about having to swap lifters several times to get them to shut up and be quiet
using the same brand so what does that tell you. Even Morel's which were good for years are now suffering issues with being nosey more and more we here this.

Those that do not want any issues with lifters regardless of engine choose the Isky/johnson race lifters because they are
still the best lifters on the market and have been.

Some will argue the fact they have used others with no issues and that is not disputed.

But I can say in 30+ years of using them I have only had 1 issue with noisy valve train using their Hyd. lifters.

[CGT]

Maybe some lifters are less sensitive vs others, but I'm surprised at how everyone seems to be ignoring the cam lobe as a culprit.

I agree, especially since the lobe has a major effect on how noisy things are. There are some lobes I just will not choose for this reason alone. And I don't see a different lifter getting rid of it. But I could be wrong.

[427dart]

Those Isky/Johnson lifters ought to be good at over a grand per set. But why does it cost that much for a quiet lifter for a street/strip hyd. roller cam?

Well this is an issue all car guys face. if you want a good quality part they are more costly then a copied cheaper part.
the fact is you get the best lifter made hands down.
If the cost scares you then sell the car and ride a moped because the lifter industry today is not like it was 30 years ago.
Quality has been replaced with cheaper labor costs and greater accepted tolerance levels.
Noisy lifters are just plain out of tolerance and allow for the bleed down to be excessive causing rattling valve train.

If you have confirmed the cam profile is not lofting the lifter off the lobes from being too aggressive or allowing the lobe to drop the lifter causing the noise then you need a better quality lifter that has less bleed rate.

Many guys have complained here about having to swap lifters several times to get them to shut up and be quiet
using the same brand so what does that tell you. Even Morel's which were good for years are now suffering issues with being nosey more and more we here this.

Those that do not want any issues with lifters regardless of engine choose the Isky/johnson race lifters because they are
still the best lifters on the market and have been.

Some will argue the fact they have used others with no issues and that is not disputed.

But I can say in 30+ years of using them I have only had 1 issue with noisy valve train using their Hyd. lifters.

Glad my 400 dollar hyd. rollers are quiet!

[novafornow]

Side tracking a little but on the same subject, i posted on YB about running solid rollers on the hydraulic cam because of lifter problems. Opinions? I think it will be fine. Thinking .004" - .005" lash cold.

[Charliesauto]

Side tracking a little but on the same subject, i posted on YB about running solid rollers on the hydraulic cam because of lifter problems. Opinions? I think it will be fine. Thinking .004" - .005" lash cold.

Put the solid rollers on it, you will not regret it.

[77cruiser]

I have a set of Bullet lifters they were said to be made by Morel, noisy yea. Was thinking of trying solids myself but I thought if you set them to were there was little to no lash cold you'd end up about 5-6 thou hot with aluminum heads. If I had a SHP block i'd get some spiders & GM lifters.
Don't know if I could make that work with a Little M?