Simple Tunnel ram Question

[n2omike]

Gravity is an acceleration force (a1) . When there is another acceleration force (a2) the vectors (directions) of the acceleration forces combine (a1 + a2) and the resultant apparent acceleration force and equal reaction force vector (direction) is located between the two at an angle proportionate to the ratio of the applied forces. Gravity's 1g acceleration vector is always present and affects any other acceleration of any mass in any direction, proportionate to the combined vectors, positive or negative (toward or away from each other). Evidence of this is seen in the 45° angle of a liquid subject to 1g horizontal acceleration, such as fuel in a float bowl. The horizontal acceleration vector and vertical acceleration vector of gravity are 90° apart and the apparent acceleration vector acting on the liquid is 45°.

Because the air in an intake port runner is accelerated from at rest to what ever is runner velocity, if the runner is vertical, such as in a tunnel ram, gravity adds 1g to whatever other acceleration force is acting to accelerate the air. If it is an updraft runner, gravity's 1g is subtracted.

Disagree.

Pressure is not direction dependent. When you are under water, you feel the weight of the water on top of you. You feel it as an equalized pressure. It is NOT direction specific. As you describe things, a submerged water balloon would still drop to the bottom with the acceleration of gravity. It doesn't. There is a neutral buoyancy.

Our example with air is the EXACT SAME. An air mass at carb level is just sitting there... minding it's own business... until a pressure differential moves it into an engine. Direction has NOTHING to do with it... be it up, down, sideways, etc. The ONLY net force acting on the air mass is the pressure differential. Therefore, it is ONLY accelerated by that pressure differential. There is no 'extra' force from gravity. That has already been equalized.

[Tuner]

Acceleration is the hangup for you (all). You don't understand acceleration. Gravity is a constant acceleration force and affects any other acceleration force. When your beach ball is floating in the water, by the definition "floating" it is not accelerating. If it is accelerated in any direction by an outside force, then gravity's acceleration is added or subtracted, in proportion depending on the vectors of the two forces. To achieve the same velocity in acceleration, your floating ball is easier to push down than up.

[n2omike]

Acceleration is the hangup for you (all). You don't understand acceleration. Gravity is a constant acceleration force and affects any other acceleration force. When your beach ball is floating in the water, by the definition "floating" it is not accelerating. If it is accelerated in any direction by an outside force, then gravity's acceleration is added or subtracted, in proportion depending on the vectors of the two forces. To achieve the same velocity in acceleration, your floating ball is easier to push down than up.

Gravity does not automatically accelerate anything. All it does, is provide a downward force proportional to the object's mass.

What we are trying to tell you, is that there is an equal but opposite force in the upward direction as well... hence the no 'net' force, and no acceleration.

It's the reason a water balloon below the surface does not drop to the bottom like a rock... and why an air mass minding it's own business around carb level does not move until an outside force acts on it. They are at equilibrium.

[Tuner]

Acceleration is the hangup for you (all). You don't understand acceleration. Gravity is a constant acceleration force and affects any other acceleration force. When your beach ball is floating in the water, by the definition "floating" it is not accelerating. If it is accelerated in any direction by an outside force, then gravity's acceleration is added or subtracted, in proportion depending on the vectors of the two forces. To achieve the same velocity in acceleration, your floating ball is easier to push down than up.

Gravity does not automatically accelerate anything. All it does, is provide a downward force proportional to the object's mass.

What we are trying to tell you, is that there is an equal but opposite force in the upward direction as well... hence the no 'net' force, and no acceleration.

It's the reason a water balloon below the surface does not drop to the bottom like a rock... and why an air mass minding it's own business around carb level does not move until an outside force acts on it. They are at equilibrium.

If you can with an open mind, re-read the above, perhaps several times, and try to determine if you are not actually contradicting yourself in pursuit of merely verbal opposition in the spirit of contention and not of fair discussion.

Keep in mind, acceleration is the rate of change of velocity.

[MadBill]

...To achieve the same velocity in acceleration, your floating ball is easier to push down than up.

Okay, that's an even simpler way to test your unique theory: Fill a balloon with water (ensuring there's no air pocket), tie off the neck and submerge it in a pool, aquarium, deep bathtub, lake or whatever. Push it in any direction and observe whether it's easier to move it down than up. Tip: The size of the dimple produced by your finger pressure will be proportional to the accelerating force you are applying. If you really want to get fancy, you can use a light fish scale or similar device to tow it.

[BenE64]

I may not be smart enough to join this conversation but im going to throw in any way
If gravity plays no part effecting fuel in the air due to the theory that gravity only effects air pressure in the plenum would that mean if i put a sprinkler on inside my house with all the doors and windows shut the water would continue to follow the trajectory it leaves the nozzle or would it not arc down to the floor? The air pressure is the same inside my plenum house?

Wind blown rain through a pipe or a tunnel mainly wets the floor at the entry even though the air is blowing through the tunnel at the same speed through out. What is making the water drop to the floor? The air pressure is the same at the bottom and top of the tunnel?

What am i missing?

[j-c-c]

Science Projects for Beginners: Why Do Some Objects Fall Faster ...
https://www.infoplease.com/.../science- ... cts-fall-f...
A feather and brick dropped together. Air resistance causes the feather to fall more slowly. If a feather and a brick were dropped together in a vacuum—that is, an area from which all air has been removed—they would fall at the same rate, and hit the ground at the same time"

Meaning in a vacuum, mass doesn't matter, acceleration is always the same result with the force of gravity? I assume elsewhere that result is proportional to the drag of the two masses and amount of vacuum present?

In use, a TR is seldom at or close to equilibrium, and or at constant velocity?

[j-c-c]

Member GMRocket wants to know:

"if i jack up the front end of my car, wll my tunnel ram work better...simple question,,hahahaha"

[Dave Koehler]

Please leave your political dis cussins over there. Don't drag down this thread.

[Kevin Johnson]

...
Gravity does not automatically accelerate anything. All it does, is provide a downward force proportional to the object's mass.

Gravity accelerates matter by definition, which you just stated. You do not notice the gravitational acceleration in a random kinetic gas model because it is acting on all the molecules regardless of their independent velocities.

... What we are trying to tell you, is that there is an equal but opposite force in the upward direction as well... hence the no 'net' force, and no acceleration. ...

That would be the perfectly elastic collisions made by randomly moving molecules assumptions made in kinetic gas theory. Random includes all possible movement directions.

...It's the reason a water balloon below the surface does not drop to the bottom like a rock... and why an air mass minding it's own business around carb level does not move until an outside force acts on it. They are at equilibrium.

Yes, they are at equilibrium whilst themselves being in a local gravitational field.

When we calculate scalar speeds at a drag strip we do not take into account the rotation of the Earth (other than weather effects resulting from same). Scientists do use the rotation of the Earth, however, in achieving escape velocity with rockets.

Aside: Please do not take this as an argument for or against the OP query. The query itself is worth considering and interesting.


https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/launch-windows/en/

[engineguyBill]

Simply put, gravity has no "measurable" affect upon fuel/air, nor exhaust gasses passing into through and out of an internal combustion engine.

[Kevin Johnson]

Every time the gas in a bounded system becomes rarefied the acceleration due to gravity becomes a measurable factor but to measure it accurately is not simple. Because the work performed to rarefy the gas preceding the charge greatly complicates the thermodynamic accounting that is reason enough to shy away and call it a day.

New word for today:

rarefy verb
rar·​e·​fy | \ ˈrer-ə-ˌfī \
variants: or less commonly rarify
rarefied; rarefying
Definition of rarefy
transitive verb

1 : to make rare, thin, porous, or less dense : to expand without the addition of matter
2 : to make more spiritual, refined, or abstruse

intransitive verb: to become less dense

[n2omike]

This thread is running off the rails. I'm out.
Carry On...

[Tuner]

This thread is running off the rails. I'm out.
Carry On...

You haven't been on the rails once in this thread because you don't recognize that acceleration vectors are additive. Gravity is an acceleration force and the G vector is always the same. When the air is accelerating, during the time it is actually changing velocity, the acceleration vector of gravity is part of the overall equation that determines the final velocity resulting from the acceleration.

[n2omike]

This thread is running off the rails. I'm out.
Carry On...

You haven't been on the rails once in this thread because you don't recognize that acceleration vectors are additive. Gravity is an acceleration force and the G vector is always the same. When the air is accelerating, during the time it is actually changing velocity, the acceleration vector of gravity is part of the overall equation that determines the final velocity resulting from the acceleration.

It's been explained to you multiple times that an object AT EQUILIBRIUM has a net force of ZERO. Any forces applied (gravity) to this object are already counterbalanced. Therefore, the gravity has ZERO NET AFFECT.

Do as MadBill said... Submerge a water balloon, and poke it from various sides... and SEE if it accelerates any faster down than it does up or sideways. If you're objective, you'll see that it is THE SAME.

A submerged water balloon has a neutral buoyancy... as does an air mass.

The buoyant (upward) force is equal to the weight of the displaced volume of the media it's in.

A one quart water balloon displaces one quart of water... so the buoyant force is equal to its weight. It's weight is cancelled out, so it just hovers there. If it was filled with air, it would shoot to the surface. Filled with mercury, it would drop like a rock. But filled with water, it just hovers as it's weight is equal to the buoyant force. The exact same occurs with an air mass. It's buoyant force is equal to the volume of air it displaces.

To make the 'air' example easier to see, consider an hot air balloon. Before the air is heated, there is no net buoyant force. It does not rise. Once the air is expanded with heat, the weight of air it displaces is greater than it's own... so there is a net upward force... and it accelerates upward.

An air mass of the same temperature as the air around it has a buoyant force of ZERO. Gravity is cancelled out, and has ZERO net affect.

It's a VERY SIMPLE concept.