O2 sensor question.

[dfarr67]

Putting together a GM 0411 ecu system. Found (and bought) a few upstream Delphi O2 sensors, seems there is a Canadian version and American version- to my knowledge E85 is not available up here our 87 octane is probably in the E10 range. Is there a problem? Harness and 0411 is Canadian, truck will be tuned. On other vehicles I have- never ran into this issue.

Delphi es20022-11b1

DELPHI ES20022 {#19178961, 25315809} Info
Upstream; Wrench Size: 7/8 in; Except Canada Built Vehicle

[cardo0]

Don't make it rocket science dude. only 3 wires on a heated O2 and only 2 wires on a non-heated O2. P.S. stay away from Bosch as they can be complicated.

[dfarr67]

Not trying to- I just spec'd sensors for the original application- 2000 Silverado. Four wire I believe.

[donforeman]

If its tuned anyway, I would say your probably good to go. I have noticed a few different part numbers listed for other vehicles, but when I looked in those instances it had to do with the length of lead not the actual sensor. Look at the lead lengths, your problem may be the same. Just to be sure you could post the question on forum.hptuners.com. If its a 0411 conversion they would know a lot more.

[dfarr67]

I understand if GM changes a vender- sometimes the part number changes too. This is a 24X SBC project, so fitment is not a concern- just sensor performance.

[cardo0]

Myself I thought the O2 sensors were sensitive to wire extensions and connections but the research I did found AC Delco aren't while Bosch says theirse they are - though I don't see how.

No I'm not going to look up your sensor part numbers for you and I don't expect others to either. 2 wires are for the voltage potential created and a 3rd wire has power to heat the sensor. 4th wire you have to look up but I suspect it's for some temperature compensation and that shouldn't be too difficult to measure with a resistance check. Or it could be just a dedicated ground.

[dfarr67]

one wire feedback
one wire heater
two grounds.

I don't need you to look up anything.

[dfarr67]

I thought the question was straight forward.
For the same model truck/vehicle why would there be a different spec o2 for different assembly plants between Canada and US- that's it.

I don't care about Bosch.
I don't care about wire length.

[cardo0]

Book keeping.

Trying to keep the science out of this but if you actually have 2 dedicated grounds one is for the voltage potential and the other is the heating element which is only used until the exhaust system has heated up - then it remains at whatever temp the exhaust gas produces (unless it falls below the element temp).

It seems like your overthinking this because the USA sensors have a different part number than Canada. Unless we happen to have a GM parts number expert on the forum wouldn't make sense to use the part number sensor that matches the PCM?

[peejay]

Don't make it rocket science dude. only 3 wires on a heated O2 and only 2 wires on a non-heated O2. P.S. stay away from Bosch as they can be complicated.

Negative. 4 wire sensors mandatory, and you have to use the correct ones. Some GM PCMs control the ground side of the heater circuit and some control the power side. That is why some have the square connector and some have the trapezoidal connector - one has the sensor ground "floating" relative to the sensor body and one does not, and I honestly don't remember which is which. I've had to rewire harnesses when swapping computers around, as it's computer-specific and not harness-specific.

This isn't an '84 Volvo, they finely control the heater and monitor its current, and the signal and sensor ground both go to the PCM individually from the heater.

I'd LIKE to say the '411 uses the trapezoidal type sensor, but again, this is one of those things that I have books remember for me. I find what chassis the PCM's operating system came from and use sensors for that chassis and make sure the harness is wired correctly for that.

Decent treatise on the different types of O2 sensors used on GenIII/IV engines courtesy of lt1swap.com. (Don't let the name fool you, he has written up a wonderful resource for navigating the different PCMs and wiring harnesses used by GM on the LS1 and 4.8/5.3/6.0 motors) Quickly reading through it, it seems that US/Canadian built makes a difference because of the suppliers used. It's not a market issue, it's a production difference.

[cardo0]

Thx for the drawings peejay. And if you look at the heating elements of the O2 sensors in those drawings very few have heater control. Majority are direct wired to a 15amp fuse. And I will say again once exhaust system is up to operating temperature that will control the sensor temperature as long as it is hotter - which most likely it will be - as how the non-control heater elements operate.

But yes if you have controlled heater element then the PCM computer is looking at the high or low reference and you should use the correct part or you may possibly get a DTC (though you might not, who knows until you try it).

[dfarr67]

Thanks PeeJay that goes a long way in answering the question, the harness is out of an 1999 5.3L Silverado- looks like things just got more complicated as the sensors I will be using will be a mix of vortec (96-99), LT1 and TPI (for repinning). And all I was initially concerned about was throttle by cable and red/blue ecu connectors. I'll have to check the harness upstream connectors- looking between 1999 and 2001 sensors things get more complicated. Photo is what the sensor has for a connector.

[jake197000]

i have lengthend the wires many time i use wire from an old sensor never had a problem as long as your solder job is good

[David Redszus]

We have used oxygen sensors in race cars for over 40 years. In the early days, the data collection system was a voltmeter attached to the steering wheel and observed by the driver while on the track.

Modern Lambda systems are not only heated but provide sensor tip temperature feedback.
While a sensor heater can raise temperature, it cannot cool an overheated sensor.

An examination of the Nernst Equation indicates the sensor temperature sensitivity.
Modern Lambda controllers can compensate for temperature differences to some extent.

[dfarr67]

i have lengthend the wires many time i use wire from an old sensor never had a problem as long as your solder job is good

I prefer to use patch harness or crimped connection- that wire is a PITA.