Venting about so called "builders"

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by Dave Koehler » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:50 pm

GARY C wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:40 pm
I sell fuel to dirt track racers that don't own a timing light and wouldn't know how to use it if the did or can't change jets on a holley carb and when I tried to show them they didn't even want to learn... Not sure how these guys even race.
Sadly that premise is more widespread these days.
I was working the midway at a race when a big name promod engine builder walked by shaking his head with the deer in the headlights look.
>Hey, what's up with you?
<Awww man, I got to tell you that some of these customers can't make a decision to change a spark plug without my blessing.
It's both stupid and scary to me.
>Hmmmm, isn't baby sitting part of why you get those really big bucks?
<sigh, I guess so but it still seems way wrong on so many levels.
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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by MotionMachine » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm

Speaking of shoddy work
Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by Orr89rocz » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:54 pm

MotionMachine wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm
Speaking of shoddy work

Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
Spray some copper sealant on, fill in the rough spots lol

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by barnym17 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:56 pm

never asked me to build it as winters are extremely busy for me due to a lot of overtime. Engine was not ran on dyno to my knowledge.

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Dave Koehler wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:50 pm
GARY C wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:40 pm
I sell fuel to dirt track racers that don't own a timing light and wouldn't know how to use it if the did or can't change jets on a holley carb and when I tried to show them they didn't even want to learn... Not sure how these guys even race.
Sadly that premise is more widespread these days.
I was working the midway at a race when a big name promod engine builder walked by shaking his head with the deer in the headlights look.
>Hey, what's up with you?
<Awww man, I got to tell you that some of these customers can't make a decision to change a spark plug without my blessing.
It's both stupid and scary to me.
>Hmmmm, isn't baby sitting part of why you get those really big bucks?
<sigh, I guess so but it still seems way wrong on so many levels.
These guys offered to pay me to work on their car (You can be our Crew Chief they said) but they can't afford to buy methanol buy the drum... They wanted to buy a carb I had but apparently $150.00 was to much for them at the time. :)

I know where that deal would have ended up.
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by BillK » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:37 pm

MotionMachine wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm
Speaking of shoddy work

Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
But thats how you keep the gasket from moving :)
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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by Dave Koehler » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:45 pm

BillK wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:37 pm
MotionMachine wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm
Speaking of shoddy work

Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
But thats how you keep the gasket from moving :)
You have to tram the head and let it cut clear across leaving an X pattern. That will lock it down. =D>

Now, I'm not so sure I would call that shoddy.
Out of date equipment or feed or ignorance of the finish needed for the latest gasket is more like it.
One also must ask is a leaky head gasket the reason this came in?
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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by BillK » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:01 pm

I think the point that most are trying to make is that it is not always the engine builders fault. If your guy is not a mechanic that's fine BUT he needs to have one with him when working on the car, tuning it and at the track.

Not sure how plug threads could hit a piston unless it is the wrong length plug ? Or the head machined wrong etc but you are right, someone should have caught it :(
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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by MotionMachine » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:11 pm

Dave Koehler wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:45 pm
BillK wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:37 pm
MotionMachine wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm
Speaking of shoddy work

Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
But thats how you keep the gasket from moving :)
You have to tram the head and let it cut clear across leaving an X pattern. That will lock it down. =D>

Now, I'm not so sure I would call that shoddy.
Out of date equipment or feed or ignorance of the finish needed for the latest gasket is more like it.
One also must ask is a leaky head gasket the reason this came in?
These engines have a tendency to leak externally, only 10 head bolts and long water port in between. I think this would have leaked when he poured water in it. IMO old carbide machines just cannot put a good finish on a head made of poor quality aluminum, which apparently these are. The mind blowing thing to me is a shop let this out the door.

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by cjperformance » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:54 pm

MotionMachine wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm
Speaking of shoddy work

Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
:lol: the increase is surface area is more grip for the gastet right ?!!
Craig.

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by ClassAct » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:37 pm

Dave Koehler wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:45 pm
BillK wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:37 pm
MotionMachine wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm
Speaking of shoddy work

Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
But thats how you keep the gasket from moving :)
You have to tram the head and let it cut clear across leaving an X pattern. That will lock it down. =D>

Now, I'm not so sure I would call that shoddy.
Out of date equipment or feed or ignorance of the finish needed for the latest gasket is more like it.
One also must ask is a leaky head gasket the reason this came in?

Your first line made me LOL hard. Just hilarious. Thanks for making my day. Lock that shit down!!! Good stuff!

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:47 pm

MotionMachine wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:52 pm
Speaking of shoddy work

Daimler Ra finish 001 (Small).JPG
Time is $ right? No time for them to slow the feed rate.

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by Newold1 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:13 pm

Obviously, this job was not done by a good reputable shop as a good shop would not let an engine out the door without checking a few gross things like that unless the engine owner told the shop he would finish up on assembly issues after rough build?

In any event not sure what part of the country you are in but my suggestion to your buddy is to spend a little time in the pits talking to some competitive car mechanics or owners and find out who is doing their work and if they would recommend that builder. If they would and give good reviews then have your buddy go there and stay away from builders without results and reputation for good work and performing engines!
The Older I Get, The Dumber I Get :wink:

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by Charliesauto » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:56 pm

barnym17 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:57 am
Buddy asked me to go with him for his first night out Saturday, sat in stands to watch handling during hotlaps the engine ine question is a 387 sbc with rhs heads, roller and was told 14 to 1 squeeze.As I set there watching the green drops I hear and engine hunting ducks "missing and popping badly"sure enough its him. I head to the pits check the collectors sure enough bone white so pull #1 plug to confirm lean condition as im looking at the plug I see the thread on the end has been hit"flattened " right now I'm pretty sure piston to plug clearance wasn't verified. Then I asked about the carb and was told builder dropped jets to solve rich idle, I'm thinking uhoh not good. At this time Im trying to find jets, indexing washers for plugs etc. then I happen to see the head gasket leak . 2 laps on it my buddy isn't a mechanic he just drives and paid a bunch to get this engine done I'm thinking he paid the wrong guy.
Engine builders are like race car drivers, their talents and ability varies immensely. Also, like drivers most have warped sense of where they actually stack up.

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Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by MadBill » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:23 pm

Charliesauto wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:56 pm
...
Engine builders are like race car drivers, their talents and ability varies immensely. Also, like drivers most have warped sense of where they actually stack up.
Time for another reference to the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

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