Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

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Olds455
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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by Olds455 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:23 pm

F-BIRD'88 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:19 am
Olds455: If it is a good practical usefull Formula method that gets you in the ball park most of the time, then other peoples test data will show a positivevtrend (most of the time). Other peoples results by using the formula is what matters....
It is either a usefull guideline formula (for the end user) or it is not.
Yes there will be exceptions... It is not a absolute..
Lets get the test data and let the chips. fall where.....

DV gave it for FREE. Didn't cost you a dime.
So try it out.....

Your taking what I say all wrong, it seems. I'm not dogging on DV at all, but rather the ones that do. Comparing results from 3 dyno tests to DV's thousands, and trying to say his 128 deal is not valid because 1 of your 3/10/100 dyno sessions didn't match up to his rule of thumb is wishful thinking at best. Even at 10 dyno runs or 100, you may not see the same pattern DV did in his thousands. In that case, imo, it's all in vain. They're trying to prove him wrong and don't have near the data available to make a valid comparison.

That's all I was trying to say. I apologize if I didn't make that clear.

randy331
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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by randy331 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:59 am

Olds455 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:23 pm
Comparing results from 3 dyno tests to DV's thousands, and trying to say his 128 deal is not valid because 1 of your 3/10/100 dyno sessions didn't match up to his rule of thumb is wishful thinking at best. Even at 10 dyno runs or 100, you may not see the same pattern DV did in his thousands.
If a formula is valid over 10,000s of dyno tests, then what's the odds when someone else tests it, they have the anomoly engine that don't follow neatly along with the formula ? And the next time they again have an anomoly engine ??

I'm guessing you are just a non testing believer too ??

Randy

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by RevTheory » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:39 am

Well just look at how quick we are to assume the validity of one test (no actual details or results, btw) just so long as it's said to go against DV's ten thousand.

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by Rick360 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:00 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:39 am
Well just look at how quick we are to assume the validity of one test (no actual details or results, btw) just so long as it's said to go against DV's ten thousand.
And how many of DV's dyno tests have YOU seen ... or anybody for that matter. Only data he's ever shown is his yellow graphics in his books. No data.

Rick

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by GARY C » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:07 pm

randy331 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:59 am
Olds455 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:23 pm
Comparing results from 3 dyno tests to DV's thousands, and trying to say his 128 deal is not valid because 1 of your 3/10/100 dyno sessions didn't match up to his rule of thumb is wishful thinking at best. Even at 10 dyno runs or 100, you may not see the same pattern DV did in his thousands.
If a formula is valid over 10,000s of dyno tests, then what's the odds when someone else tests it, they have the anomoly engine that don't follow neatly along with the formula ? And the next time they again have an anomoly engine ??

I'm guessing you are just a non testing believer too ??

Randy
Randy, looking at the cams you run I thought maybe you were using 128.
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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by GARY C » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:35 pm

Rick360 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:00 pm
RevTheory wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:39 am
Well just look at how quick we are to assume the validity of one test (no actual details or results, btw) just so long as it's said to go against DV's ten thousand.
And how many of DV's dyno tests have YOU seen ... or anybody for that matter. Only data he's ever shown is his yellow graphics in his books. No data.

Rick
We have never seen y'alls test so should we conclude you guys are lieing?
The dyno sheets David has posted in the past were not accepted either, his BBC dyno videos on youtube are not accepted either, so why bother posting something to please a cpl of guys that would not accept anything he could ever post.

I have done buisness with at least 7 people from 1997 to the present that have worked with him directly or indirectly and even the cpl that didn't like him personally still confirmed his ability to build and test engines, I don't think you get to where he has gotten to by lieing to people.

There have been several on this board that have worked directly with him but you guys wouldn't accept them either.

There was a guy on here posting cam recommendations using 128 before 128 was even known to the public and not only did people agree with his cam specs but when the resident experts chimed in with their recommendations after his they were usually 1 to 2 degrees different on duration and on the same lobe separation... It only became a problem when DV's name was connected to the math.
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by Orr89rocz » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:43 pm

BigBro74 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:55 pm
Orr89rocz wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:09 am
F-BIRD'88 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:56 pm
No, David Vizard said he does have data but cannot present it easily because A. Its sitting in California and
B. It is propriatory and does not all belong to him, to publish in whole form.
But that was then, this is now.
I'd like to see this proven or debunked by other independant dyno test data.

New or archived dyno tests. Valid data is valid data, one way or the other.
It need not be 1000's of dyno pulls to see a trend for or against.
After all the whole purpose of his 128 method is for OTHER PEOPLE to gain from employing his method. I think it has merrit.
Yes, to get you in the ballpark.

My opinion is that it has some merrit.. Maybe a Lot of merrit.
Did the book have data?
I have to say-- if you had read the book, you would know ir the book had data :)
The problem is, most people that comment didn't ever read any of the books ..............

I like to read books several times-----slowly.
There are a lot of little important details in books, and they show up when you do that.
Exactly my point. Hes making claims david doesnt have data but my guess is that it must be in the book where he had 128 in it.

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by slo-svt » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:31 pm

I can only speak from what I have seen on here but the couple dyno sheets I have seen from DV always have stuff blanked out on them. That’s a red flag in my book. I hope he is entered in REC like Gregory said he is. If he lives up to his name he should do extremely well. In years past DV has always had something come up hindering his attendance as a participant at these type of events. Hopefully he has better luck this year. Ps Gary congrats on successfully derailing most threads you post in. Feel free to post your phone number. I’m not going to call.


Josh
"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

Elon Musk

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:00 am

slo-svt wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:31 pm
I can only speak from what I have seen on here but the couple dyno sheets I have seen from DV always have stuff blanked out on them. That’s a red flag in my book. I hope he is entered in REC like Gregory said he is. If he lives up to his name he should do extremely well. In years past DV has always had something come up hindering his attendance as a participant at these type of events. Hopefully he has better luck this year. Ps Gary congrats on successfully derailing most threads you post in. Feel free to post your phone number. I’m not going to call.


Josh
Your welcome... FYI, it's only a red flag for you because the guys you hang with have told you it's a red flag and in the 20 years I have know DV last year was the only time he entered one of these events... I am guessing you don't know why he dropped out and you don't care as long as it gives you a reason to fit into the rick and randy club... I notice you guys follow randy around here on were and what he posts. It's kind of cute!

PS, it's funny to watch someone that writes spread sheets take credit for the engine building skills of others while dogging someone that does all his own engine design, work, builds spread sheets and designes engine programs all at the same time and still manages to write articles and books.
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slo-svt
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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by slo-svt » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:21 am

Nobody has to point it out Gary. It’s extremley obvious when entire columns of a dyno sheet are blanked out. Gregory said he is entered at REC. I look forward to competing against him. I only wish you had an entry too. Here are some explanation points because I know you like them!!!!!!!!

Josh
"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

Elon Musk

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:25 am

slo-svt wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:21 am
Nobody has to point it out Gary. It’s extremley obvious when entire columns of a dyno sheet are blanked out. Gregory said he is entered at REC. I look forward to competing against him. I only wish you had an entry too. Here are some explanation points because I know you like them!!!!!!!!

Josh
When you grow up and become half the man you think you are you will build your own engines... I hope CGT, Rick and Randy place well with your engine parts... I will eagerly await your spread sheet!

I competed at the track, never had a desire to do dyno competitions, the dyno to me is like a flow bench, it's good for evaluating changes.
Last edited by GARY C on Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by slo-svt » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:33 am

Lol. :lol: Good night Gary.

Josh
"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

Elon Musk

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by Geoff2 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:18 am

You see the Ricks, the Randys, the Slos of this world all the time. The tall poppy syndrome. Jealous that they are not the tall poppy, so look for ways to discredit the tall poppy...

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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by cjperformance » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:54 am

How about if someone doesn't have something constructive to the subject to say then they say nothing at all.
We've all been caught in a slinging match at some time or another but its time to calm it all down. We're extremely lucky that SpeedTalk continued after Don's passing and it really just takes a click of a button and Beverly could shut this whole thing down.
Have some respect and appreciation for the resource we all have to share here and pull your heads in , calm down or go away and deal with your feelings face to face, on the phone or via email, not here.
If you have a problem with someone, keep it one on one.
If you dont agree, feel free to let me know.
+610400460901
cjpa@outlook.com.au
Maybe it should be mandatory that all members have public and verified contact details, and IP addresses!!!, that may avoid some of this keyboard warrior rubbish.
Craig.

slo-svt
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Re: Determining the correct valve opening and closing points

Post by slo-svt » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 am

cjperformance wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:54 am
How about if someone doesn't have something constructive to the subject to say then they say nothing at all.
We've all been caught in a slinging match at some time or another but its time to calm it all down. We're extremely lucky that SpeedTalk continued after Don's passing and it really just takes a click of a button and Beverly could shut this whole thing down.
Have some respect and appreciation for the resource we all have to share here and pull your heads in , calm down or go away and deal with your feelings face to face, on the phone or via email, not here.
If you have a problem with someone, keep it one on one.
If you dont agree, feel free to let me know.
<a href="tel:+610400460901">+610400460901</a>
cjpa@outlook.com.au
Maybe it should be mandatory that all members have public and verified contact details, and IP addresses!!!, that may avoid some of this keyboard warrior rubbish.

I have tried keeping it one on one with Gary. He has done nothing but argue with people publicly and clog of threads for for months. This shit like he’s doing is the reason several very knowledgeable people have left.
Geoff2 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:18 am
You see the Ricks, the Randys, the Slos of this world all the time. The tall poppy syndrome. Jealous that they are not the tall poppy, so look for ways to discredit the tall poppy...


I’m not in the same league as Rick and Randy but one place you will find all 3 of us is developing real engines and doing real testing. Not living in fantasy land with internet and magazine builds.
"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

Elon Musk

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