before/after 383 dyno results

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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LoganD
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by LoganD »

gmrocket wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:04 pmYou have a problem with blanket statements?

Yet you said low lift flow is always good..

Let's see one of your engine builds that proves it? A before and after would be good
Flow is good. When someone goes to buy a better cylinder head for their engine, do they look at it and say, "Well, this head has more low lift flow than my stock head, must be garbage then!". No, people swap to cylinder heads that have better low lift flow and gain power ALL THE TIME. The heads also have better high lift flow! How come they don't cancel out and gain zero power?

You are making a change that happened to decrease low lift flow, and your conclusion is to say that low lift flow is bad. Instead, you should be investigating what else changed when you decreased low lift flow. We have thousands upon thousands of available dyno tests, magazine articles, and OEM test data that shows a better flowing system makes more power (within reason).

Maybe the dynamic flow improved, but obviously a flow bench doesn't show that. In an engine the valves are opening and closing, it's not a static flow condition like a flow bench. It's possible that, under the conditions the engine is running at, you improved flow and don't even know it. This does not mean low lift flow is bad, it just means the way people are measuring low lift flow is bad. You have to be more specific and get to the root of the issue.

I'd share some data if I could, but the NDAs I work under are pretty ironclad. Take that as you will.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by CGT »

Based on the posted flow numbers before and after.

( CFM per inch of window area )Assuming seat widths.

45° 50°
.100 119 145.5
.200 108 122
.300 97.7 111
.400 86.5 103
.500 86.5 92.4
.600 78.5 88.7
.700 67.3 77.3
.750 62.5 72.4

paulzig wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:14 am
CGT wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 am
I was just running your flows through Rick's Curtain area program, very pronounced increase in window DC at all lifts.
How many extra flows would you need with a 45° seat to equal or better the window DC of the 50° seat at all lift points?
Just checking at one point .100. The 45° seat needs to flow 77 CFM to equal the CFM/IN of the 50° flowing 62 CFM. Once again assuming seat widths.

Hopefully I got all that right.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by CGT »

LoganD wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:39 am magazine articles
:lol: :lol:
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by makin chips »

paulzig wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:14 am
CGT wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 am
I was just running your flows through Rick's Curtain area program, very pronounced increase in window DC at all lifts.
How many extra flows would you need with a 45° seat to equal or better the window DC of the 50° seat at all lift points?
What are "extra flows"? That's not an industry term I've ever heard anyone use. Can you all please use terms that everyone understands? That way, anyone who comes across this information may be able to learn from it instead of being confused by terms that only a small group of guys toss around between each other as some sort of joke?

Us mere mortals would really appreciate it.


Thanks.
Last edited by makin chips on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by PRH »

Actually, I believe the correct term is “extra flowz”. 8)
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by CGT »

makin chips wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:48 am
paulzig wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:14 am
CGT wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 am
I was just running your flows through Rick's Curtain area program, very pronounced increase in window DC at all lifts.
How many extra flows would you need with a 45° seat to equal or better the window DC of the 50° seat at all lift points?
What are "extra flows"? That's not an industry term I've ever heard anyone use.
Its not. But neither is FACT, MOO, IM OUT, putting more bowl in it, PERIOD etc....
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by makin chips »

Ok? Why you telling me that? I'm not the one who uses any of it.

I'm just trying to understand what you all are talking about so I thought I'd ask. No need to get crabby.
Last edited by makin chips on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by CGT »

makin chips wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:52 am Ok? Why you telling me that? I'm not the one who uses any of it.
You sure about that? I'm not.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by makin chips »

I've got a very short list of posts. I'd put money on that fact.

Whoever you think I am, I can tell you for a fact that you're wrong. Let's just get that out of the way now so we can get back to the original question.


Can you all please use terms everyone understands and leave the other BS to the general forum or somewhere besides tech threads? It would help keep this forum how Don wanted it. So people could SHARE INFORMATION.


We'd all appreciate it.

Thanks.
Last edited by makin chips on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by CGT »

I'm not sure if anyone truly recalls the source of the word flows. But I do. It was by a member named wyrmrider, who would always ask for your "flows", always seemed peculiar. It later got a Z added to the end. Im not sure their is a vast amount of "Industry Standard" nomenclature on this forum, in particular this section. Advanced tech, yeah
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by makin chips »

That's actually the first time I've heard about the origin of flowz in all of the times I've seen it used. Honestly, for me, it makes whatever I'm reading unintelligible because I guess I don't understand how it's being used. And didn't know the origin so I didn't get what it referred to. I appreciate you sharing that tidbit.

And yes, I had a different name at one time but it seemed like no one ever took me serious so I quit posting. Then I decided to make another for some anonymity. I'm just somebody trying to learn, like the rest of us. Just not as advanced as a lot of you.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by Stan Weiss »

paulzig wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:14 am
CGT wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 am
I was just running your flows through Rick's Curtain area program, very pronounced increase in window DC at all lifts.
How many extra flows would you need with a 45° seat to equal or better the window DC of the 50° seat at all lift points?
The valve angle / curtain area is only the MinCSA up to a point. The greater the angle the higher that lift point will be for crossover. After that other areas of the head are the MinCSA.

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http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by Stan Weiss »

CGT wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:08 am Based on the posted flow numbers before and after.

( CFM per inch of window area )Assuming seat widths.

45° 50°
.100 119 145.5
.200 108 122
.300 97.7 111
.400 86.5 103
.500 86.5 92.4
.600 78.5 88.7
.700 67.3 77.3
.750 62.5 72.4

paulzig wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:14 am
CGT wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:10 am
I was just running your flows through Rick's Curtain area program, very pronounced increase in window DC at all lifts.
How many extra flows would you need with a 45° seat to equal or better the window DC of the 50° seat at all lift points?
Just checking at one point .100. The 45° seat needs to flow 77 CFM to equal the CFM/IN of the 50° flowing 62 CFM. Once again assuming seat widths.

Hopefully I got all that right.
I don't see all of the specs for the heads, if they were posted. So I will not try to do any calculations.

Interesting if they were flowed at 28" water, then the average velocity with 50 degree seat @ .100" is about 350 fps or a CD of about 1.

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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by CGT »

Stan Weiss wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:22 am then the average velocity with 50 degree seat @ .100" is about 350 fps or a CD of about 1.
Well that certainly needs fixed then.

The valve diameters, seat angles, and flow numbers were listed earlier in the thread with the exception of widths.
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Re: before/after 383 dyno results

Post by Stan Weiss »

CGT wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:40 am
Stan Weiss wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:22 am then the average velocity with 50 degree seat @ .100" is about 350 fps or a CD of about 1.
Well that certainly needs fixed then.

The valve diameters, seat angles, and flow numbers were listed earlier in the thread with the exception of widths.
Not sure how my math matches up with your math. But if I have all of my other numbers entered correctly I would need an intake seat width of 0.059"-0.060" to get those numbers.

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