How much of a choke is this intake manifold?

[DanE1]

My neighbor is doing a frame off resto on a 1967 Ford PU. The short bed truck has a Crown Vic cop car front suspension. A new 5 speed manual is attached to the 351w/418.

Stock Block----------
4.030 Bore
4.100 Stroke
10.5 CR
AFR 205 Renegades

He wants dual quads, so he bought Edelbrock's 351w dual quad, dual plane intake manifold with 2 - 650 AVS2 carbs. He has reached out to have this intake ported, but it seems so far that everyone is too busy to port the intake so it appears I may have to port it, I really don't want to, however, any information to help me is desired.

He is no profiler. His goal is 7,000 RPM on a regular basis. Street only. He already had this short block from another project, and when this block fails he is going to go to a World Products block at 4.2 bore and 4.25 stroke. The 418w that is going into the truck now is to get the chassis set up and to have fun.

The type of camshaft is yet to be determined. -----------
Mechanical flat tappet
Hydraulic roller camshaft with mechanical roller lifters
Street, tight lash, mechanical roller camshaft

Does anyone know this intake and how much of a choke will this intake be. I called Edelbrock and that was a waste of time.

[mag2555]

If he is not looking for more then 450 hp then there's no need to pick up the grinder.

[DanE1]

600 HP is his goal!

[F-BIRD'88]

Joe Sherman had found thru testing that these series of dual quad intakes seem to like various heights of carb spacers added for more top end power. Be sure to have this part of the plan. I'd test it as is befote porting it.
The cam will be a big factor. It will need a serious cam for this.
IMHO the 650 Avs2 carbs were a good choice for this.

There is rumour of a bigger 750-800 cfm avs2 carb coming.

[DanE1]

I imagine the intake will end up with either a 1" or 2" open spacer under a Jomar Power Cone.

[DanE1]

As to the cam, no decisions, however in my dyno sim pro iterator, I am looking at-----

Hydraulic roller camshaft, solid roller lifters
Intake, 248* at .050", .650" lift
Exhaust, 256* at .050", .650" lift
LS 109*, 4* advance, intake at 105*

[cjperformance]

That intake is way small compared to those heads. It would still be great fun as a streeter untouched and make a mountain of TQ but you really want to open those intake runners by at least .080" to .100" higher& wider from the gasket face up and get around/at least 3" up each runnner and tidy up from the plenum side as much as you can reach to get up in the area he wants. You'll still end up with a .075" odd step from intake face out to head port entry at this but it will work well.
More out of those runners high/wide would be great but you start having fun trying to get further up the runners(short of cutting the intake up!) to keep a decent runner shape.
Great project.

[DanE1]

Craig;

Thank you for your reply. I agree that it is a fun project and this guy will drive it like it should be driven. It's not a grocery getter, it's a summer DD adrenaline vehicle. He is setting it up to handle very well also.

As to the porting, I thought I would make a one piece template of the head intake ports, with the template located by the bolt holes. Then transfer the template to the intake manifold and ink on any manifold metal protruding into the template port openings. And as you said, going up as far as I can while maintaining taper. As to the plenum, the radius from the plenum into the ports looked decent, but I noticed 2 distinctly different radiuses. If I understand you correctly, you are indicating to port the 2 walls and the top to the port, leave the floor alone basically.

Thanks again;
Dan

[cjperformance]

No problem, that will be great if you are prepared to go right up the entire runner, well as far as can possibly be reached, the inner 4 runners are ok but the outters are harder to get right up. So if willing to do this it will work very well.
I have seen too many intakes that have had a port match then just blended up an inch or 2 into the runner and they really dont end up achieving much and in some cases making it worse by just shifting the manifold runners choke point further up the runner.
I think your basic cam choice is looking good too.

[cjperformance]

Sorry i forgot your last part of the question re the floor. Your 1 piece template will be your guide here. Depending on exactly where your intake sits on the head will determine how much comes out of the roof an floor, as with each side. Check out the runner floor, roof and sides approach angle to the port on each runner and aim to reshape the runner as you enlarge it to gently "aim" the runner exits into the ports. With intake ports facing different directions on each side in relation to manifold runners and being dual plane you have different port/runner angles so you just need to go for the smoothest approach you can achieve for each port/runner.

[DanE1]

I aim to do as you described. I have the equipment and time. I was hoping He would pay someone instead of me doing it for free. Oh well, I am OK with the deal, have to pay for my rides I suppose. And thank you again.

[Carnut1]

This is similar to a tpi project I am working on. Ported 083 heads that flow 245 cfm@ .5" and after you bolt on the intake, runners and t.b. it flows less than 200 cfm! If at all possible bolt on heads, intake carbs and air cleaners on before grinding to give you a starting point. Thanks, Charlie

[F-BIRD'88]

Interested in what you did to the 083 TPI motor heads... Finished port volume. Port flow chart, valves ? Ya the stock tpi induction is low flow. More for a low mid rpm torque boost with the long but small runners.
Great for trucks.

[F-BIRD'88]

I think that on that manifold casting that there is just not enough meat there to get the intake runners opened big enough to make a real 600 hp from 418 cid windsor. N/A on pump gas.
Thus:
Consider using a big single plane racing intake but with the street friendly 2x650 avs2 carbs on it, on a 2x4 to 1x4 carb adapter.
Have your cake and eat it too.
Someone needs to come up eith a 351w platform tunnel ram that can support the modern high flow heads and stroker 400++ cid windsors.

The cam will need to be serious 260++@ .050" real solid roller.

[Carnut1]

Resized_20190302_130632_8022.jpeg

F bird, typical Charlie gig, light cleanup. Still on the grinding bench. If there is some ST interest I could do a thread on the project. Thanks, Charlie