gmrocket wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:53 am
got it mocked up..spacers are cnc'd 3/8 thick. gotta make two round block off plugs for the timing chain cover. also made some thinner spacer plates for the water pump out of 1/8' stainless plate, but decided to go with the aluminum.
You surprised me again. I'm guessing your using one set of bolt holes for alignment of pump but doesn't that align the WP with the top holes on the Gen II block that flow first to the heads? I'm not seeing the correct flow path here. The bottom trapezoid looking holes flow to the block but I see them as blocked off now. What am I missing?
gmrocket wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:53 am
got it mocked up..spacers are cnc'd 3/8 thick. gotta make two round block off plugs for the timing chain cover. also made some thinner spacer plates for the water pump out of 1/8' stainless plate, but decided to go with the aluminum.
You surprised me again. I'm guessing your using one set of bolt holes for alignment of pump but doesn't that align the WP with the top holes on the Gen II block that flow first to the heads? I'm not seeing the correct flow path here. The bottom trapezoid looking holes flow to the block but I see them as blocked off now. What am I missing?
Plate looks professional and thx for the pic.
Correct, the upper pump bolt holes go through the spacer into the block...we removed the piece of casting that seperates the upper block feed into the heads, and the lower block feed into the water jackets...so it's a combined passage, but blocked off at the deck surface by the plugs in earlier pics
I forgot to post the pics of the modified block water feed from pump, I'll post those and pic of the adapter plates
So basically, you entered the top hole, blocked the bottom, and connected the 2 "internally". That's a really slick idea. Not sure I'd have come up with that solution. Nice job on that entire thing.
Okay, that should work. I have to wonder what tool you were able to get in there to remove the cast in barrier?
Yes the Gen II blocks look to me as a much better casting than most Gen I blocks with less casting flash and seems to have much cleaner edges. Even more so when comparing to early non-roller blocks. Im grinding out the lifter valley and oil returns now and spent a bundle on new grinding tools but it looked much better than my older 400 blocks and would work well enough w/o my detailing. Next step is adding lifter valley pipes over the cam tunnel. Why some of these pipes cost $50 I can't explain as I doubt I could measure the HP they recover?
Makes me ask if there is an easier way to convert the Gen II blocks to a belt driven Gen I WP while still using the Gen II reverse cooling heads? Can return/exit piping fit under the Gen I WP connecting the trapizoide looking return holes to the radiator? I ask because using the original Gen II WP requires electric cooling fans (and a shroud). I read Smokey Y. (RIP) plumbed into the SBC heads for a return as the stock Gen I return through the intake causes flow imbalance from the heads.
Yes the OEM roller cam hardware is a huge savings over any vendor retro roller hardware and works great for modest performance. To bad I spent all my savings on new tools but that would happen sooner or later regardless. I believe the Gen II blocks get overlooked but are a great option for a budget sbc build and as cheap sbc stroker too.
makin chips wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:48 pm
So basically, you entered the top hole, blocked the bottom, and connected the 2 "internally". That's a really slick idea. Not sure I'd have come up with that solution. Nice job on that entire thing.
That's it..in fact the pump mods can easily be done on an engine in the car...and if your careful with cleaning and really anal..the deck mods could also be done in the engine bay
I like this thread. It is not the usual arguing over where 2 more hp could have been found, but more of an idea as to what my 16 year old nephew could do for an inexpensive upgrade to what he has now. Reminds me of what car craft was 15 years ago. Even though I will probably never do this mod, I at least have got a kick out of this thread. Thanks for posting and updating.
Paul.
"It's a fine line between clever and stupid." David St. Hubbins
FC-Pilot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:37 pm
I like this thread. It is not the usual arguing over where 2 more hp could have been found, but more of an idea as to what my 16 year old nephew could do for an inexpensive upgrade to what he has now. Reminds me of what car craft was 15 years ago. Even though I will probably never do this mod, I at least have got a kick out of this thread. Thanks for posting and updating.
Paul.
Thanks..I very rarely work on sb chevs so this was a learning experience . It's my sons motor for his boat.
Last year he descided his boat wasn't fast enough so he picked up some used pro comp heads on the cheap because of the usual problem ,, worn out guides. Bought the heads and an antique edelbrock single plane street master intake at a swap meet for next to nothing. Then discovered, the intake wouldn't fit the 96 LT1 heads, which was the first plan, and the pro comps wouldn't work on the block...
So this is where we are...he's a cnc machinist so he can whip up whatever we need.
It is really a low buck build to get the boat ready for the spring.
finally got the timing chain and cam in so we mocked it up with the spacers. the only chain that will work on these without modifing the cast aluminum cover is a single roller. there are a few options, we went with a cloyes true roller #9-1157.
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cardo0 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:52 pm
Okay, that should work. I have to wonder what tool you were able to get in there to remove the cast in barrier?
Yes the Gen II blocks look to me as a much better casting than most Gen I blocks with less casting flash and seems to have much cleaner edges. Even more so when comparing to early non-roller blocks. Im grinding out the lifter valley and oil returns now and spent a bundle on new grinding tools but it looked much better than my older 400 blocks and would work well enough w/o my detailing. Next step is adding lifter valley pipes over the cam tunnel. Why some of these pipes cost $50 I can't explain as I doubt I could measure the HP they recover?
Makes me ask if there is an easier way to convert the Gen II blocks to a belt driven Gen I WP while still using the Gen II reverse cooling heads? Can return/exit piping fit under the Gen I WP connecting the trapizoide looking return holes to the radiator? I ask because using the original Gen II WP requires electric cooling fans (and a shroud). I read Smokey Y. (RIP) plumbed into the SBC heads for a return as the stock Gen I return through the intake causes flow imbalance from the heads.
Yes the OEM roller cam hardware is a huge savings over any vendor retro roller hardware and works great for modest performance. To bad I spent all my savings on new tools but that would happen sooner or later regardless. I believe the Gen II blocks get overlooked but are a great option for a budget sbc build and as cheap sbc stroker too.
we drilled between the casting,,this is the first drill out, then one size bigger and we were able to break it out with one hit. easier and quicker like this than grinding it out
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gmrocket wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:14 pm
we drilled between the casting,,this is the first drill out, then one size bigger and we were able to break it out with one hit. easier and quicker like this than grinding it out
Thx, that looks pretty ingenious. I still wonder if you can drill out your adapters enough to use the trapezoid return holes to connect a return to the radiator with the Gen I w/p? I'm think'n of converting the Gen II block to use a Gen I water pump - allows a pulley driven w/p and mechanical fan. But in the end it's probably easier to just install electric fans for cooling and run the Gen II w/p using parts on the shelf today.
Also I had hoped on using a double roller on my Gen II since I will use an electric w/p and eliminate the w/p drive from the cam sprocket. Where does a double roller interfere with the Gen II timing cover? I found some pix of a Gen II with a double roller but that owner may have missed something you didn't.
gmrocket wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:14 pm
we drilled between the casting,,this is the first drill out, then one size bigger and we were able to break it out with one hit. easier and quicker like this than grinding it out
Thx, that looks pretty ingenious. I still wonder if you can drill out your adapters enough to use the trapezoid return holes to connect a return to the radiator with the Gen I w/p? I'm think'n of converting the Gen II block to use a Gen I water pump - allows a pulley driven w/p and mechanical fan. But in the end it's probably easier to just install electric fans for cooling and run the Gen II w/p using parts on the shelf today.
Also I had hoped on using a double roller on my Gen II since I will use an electric w/p and eliminate the w/p drive from the cam sprocket. Where does a double roller interfere with the Gen II timing cover? I found some pix of a Gen II with a double roller but that owner may have missed something you didn't.
That's what part of the block conversion is about, using a gen 1 belt driven water pump . As well as heads
You'll have to modify the cast cover to use a double roller or maybe use the sheet metal gen 1 cover modified to fit the different bolt pattern
gmrocket wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:00 pmchain set
This cloyes 9-1157 chain set is a piece of junk,, the chain actually. It's a no name chain. Degreeing the cam and it was...28deg , the the next time around 32, then 28, then 32!
Measured between a few of the links, got .175" .175" .175" .163" .163"
Not sure I'd have come up with that solution. Nice job on that entire thing.
