Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

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Circlotron
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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Circlotron » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:06 pm

I didn't know what a Rivian was so I looked it up.
Was the front end styling done by the same person that did the Edsel?

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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by adam728 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Newold1 -

You are buying a $70,000 electric pickup, but worried about what you'll spend on gas on a currently available truck? Or is this thread just to complain about your pre-conceived notions about some truck conspiracy?


Yes, trucks don't get that great of mileage. But the US public has proven again and again that it wants the biggest, baddest, most powerful truck (with car-like ride and creature comforts). So that's what the big 3 build and sell. If people would buy a modern, S-10 sized pickup with 120 hp then yes, trucks with great mpg would be out there. But everyone wants 300+ hp and room for 6 adults. I also hate where the truck market is at, but realize I'm in a very small minority. To say the manufactures haven't been trying is asinine. Huge amounts of weight have been cut in recent years, and aero continues to improve. Yes, making them smaller would do even more, but there are tons of tricks at play to make the behemoths much more slippery than they appear to the eye.

And you don't think they want to make a more fuel efficient engine? Look at the push towards smaller turbo engines in Ford and now GM. That's a massive uphill battle they are making, when consumers want monster V-8's with displacements measured in cubic yards and torque figures with 4 places left of the decimal. But millions or billions are being invested in developing smaller, more fuel efficient engine's and transmissions to go with them. Again, the issue is that consumers want monster power and building-sized trucks to go with them.

Some quick research on Fuelly.com shows trucks are improving in mileage. Looking at the most popular, average has gone up from 13.5 mpg to 15.0 mpg, real world reporting. That's an 11% increase, while hp, weight, etc has gone up how much?
TruckMPG.PNG
Do you really believe that Rivian is going to get you 400 miles on a charge while hauling? Or during a snowy winter day with the heater blasting, wipers going, and headlights on?

These guys are right, if mpg is your main concern, a small SUV or car with a trailer will beat the pants off any truck. And towing in winter is a pretty normal occurrence. Ask snowmobilers.
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Newold1
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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Newold1 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:56 pm

Adam
I am in no way saying truck makers are involved or guilty of a conspiracy in what they build and offer for sale in trucks!

To be honest, I am going to totally stop worrying about what people do when they purchase their choice of vehicles. They make their choices and I will make mine.
I have always been a true capitalist and I abhore anyone or laws that try to control or restrict free choice.

I also will not accept the propaganda that some companies put out on how they are really protecting our economic well being with their products that don't t always perform as advertised. Bullshit, the loyallty lies only with profit and superior market position. There is nothing wrong with that, just don't t try to convince me their only goal is my well being!

As for the fuel mileage graphs and numbers you posted. Do a little better research and you will see these numbers are at end 2017 models mileage. What I was reporting is that the numbers now out from three independent sources now show 3019 models get less mpg's than both 2017 & 2018 models.

In any event, I am done with this subject. You buy and use the trucks you want and I will happily buy the trucks I want. We will all stay happy with that.
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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by MT Jeff » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:58 pm

You should get an E-85 truck, they get 100 mpg of gasoline. Let me explain.
the truck gets 15mpg of fuel
you burn 10 gallons to go 150 miles,
10 gallons of e85 has 1.5 gallons of gas
150 miles on 1.5 gallons of gas equals 100 mpg
THAT'S HOW THE GOVERNMENT CALCULATES IT.
So you build one truck that can use e85 and one that can't that averages out to 26mpg of gas
300 miles on 11.5 gallons of gas equals 26mpg of gas burned
The CAFE fuel economy regs are met.
It doesn't matter that you burned 10 gallons of fuel, you only burned 1.5 gallons of gas.
Now wasn't that easy, problem solved.
It doesn't matter if you use e85 , the truck can use it so it meets the regulations.
Why is the least trained, lowest paid tech working on the most important part of your car, THE BRAKES ! I know I work next to him.

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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:55 pm

This is Engine Tech?

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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by emsvitil » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:17 am

For poops and grins, once or twice a year I build and price a 2500(GM,Ram) or 250(Ford) as a super basic model.
(about $37k so far this time)

Then see if the web page can actually find that model.....

I've never had the web page find the basic model, only models that are $20k more.............

It's a work truck, I don't need all that crap..............
Ed

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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by GARY C » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:46 am

Newold1 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:56 pm
Adam
I am in no way saying truck makers are involved or guilty of a conspiracy in what they build and offer for sale in trucks!

To be honest, I am going to totally stop worrying about what people do when they purchase their choice of vehicles. They make their choices and I will make mine.
I have always been a true capitalist and I abhore anyone or laws that try to control or restrict free choice.

I also will not accept the propaganda that some companies put out on how they are really protecting our economic well being with their products that don't t always perform as advertised. Bullshit, the loyallty lies only with profit and superior market position. There is nothing wrong with that, just don't t try to convince me their only goal is my well being!

As for the fuel mileage graphs and numbers you posted. Do a little better research and you will see these numbers are at end 2017 models mileage. What I was reporting is that the numbers now out from three independent sources now show 3019 models get less mpg's than both 2017 & 2018 models.

In any event, I am done with this subject. You buy and use the trucks you want and I will happily buy the trucks I want. We will all stay happy with that.
And you think the Electric Truck mnf is going to be any different?
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Newold1 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:00 am

YEP! :wink:
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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by CamKing » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:00 am

Newold1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:49 pm

The Rivian electric pickup will go 400 miles on a charge and that will do just fine.
Unless you try and do something crazy, like run the air conditioning.
If you think the mileage claims for gas burning trucks are inflated, they're nothing compared to electric cars.
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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by RevTheory » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:14 am

I can imagine a long grade with the a/c on and a little u-haul trailer and you're toast. Hey, I wonder if that thing makes toast :-k

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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by GerryP » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:48 am

Actually, for EVs, cold temperatures have more adverse effect than does heat and running the A/C: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzela ... d89bca344e

Imagine thinking you're ready to go on your 60-mile trip with plenty o' juice to get there and back. It's a very nippy morning and getting into the vehicle and finding you now have only enough juice for a one-way trip or facing a lengthy layover to get more juice to get you home. It should go without saying that individual experiences would vary by climate and driving habit, just like for a petro-fueled engine.

A lot of what's being presented in this thread is based upon inaccurate information and a strong bias towards EVs. Anecdotes about fuel economy are rather pointless because it's not being measured in a controlled environment. There is no EPA fuel economy rating for trucks. These are prevailing issues for an argument. I drive an '18 Ford F-250 King Ranch diesel...an 8,000 lb truck all day long. Unloaded and not towing, my around town economy runs right at 14mpg. On the highway I easily run 22mpg at speeds below 70mph. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Newold1 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:54 am

As I understand this new Rivian electric vehicle platform (skateboard) the battery pack is controlled at a fairly constant temperature range via an onboard computer controlled heating and cooling system and that most of the time the cooling system is used almost all the time to cool the special batteries in their containment system. This cooling is useable on demand at an time for interior cooling and is also used to cool the electric motors to maintain their temperature.

Do you think Daimler would have just announced they are purchasing 20 billion dollars in this type of new temperature controlled EV battery system units if they did not see the electric vehicle sunrise in the distance for their short term future 2020-2022, or that SK would just announce they are building 1 or 2 billion dollar EV battery gigafactories in the US alone? :wink:

Point being, I don't think using the A/C up hills or down will reduce the claimed miles per charge. Heavy acceleration or throttle use, pulling grades or towing will obviously affect this distance as it does with a tank of gas or diesel in any truck.

We should also take into consideration that many new EV vehicles and the Rivian EV's use regenerative braking to assist recharge and extend mileage figures.

This is a big area of technology that is taking place with EV vehicles. The latest technology and trends as also being integrated at Rivian is to build and provide battery pack power systems that have a temperature maintenance system as part of their standard configuration so as to not be seriously affected by high temperature or freezing cold driving environments. Not all current or planned EV vehicles are being built or supplied with these types of battery platforms. We must not be so quick to use the idea or opinions that all EV's suffer from power degradation form temperature variations or driving environments.
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Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by gruntguru » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:35 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:54 am
. . . . We should also take into consideration that many new EV vehicles and the Rivian EV's use regenerative braking to assist recharge and extend mileage figures. . .
Several good points in your post but I liked this one.

Thanks to regen' braking, EVs and hybrids suffer far less from heavy loads, hills and stop-start driving than combustion vehicles do.

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