Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

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Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by NewbVetteGuy » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:35 pm

For anyone heading to PRI, it would be FANTASTIC if someone could take some notes @ Vince Roman's Header Theory presentation and post them back up here afterword...

It's called "Optimizing Exhaust Design or Finding Mercy" and will be in Room 239 on Thursday @ 10:00am.


https://www.enginelabs.com/news/burns-s ... -pri-show/



Adam

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by David Vizard » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:22 pm

It would be interesting to here Vince's thoughts on the importance of equal length on primary pipes for a V8u.
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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by proheader » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:19 pm

Why such the concern about equal length tubes?? EGt proves sometimes not all holes burn the same?? How about considering exhaust pulse collector timing first over length??

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by David Vizard » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:16 pm

proheader wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:19 pm
Why such the concern about equal length tubes?? EGt proves sometimes not all holes burn the same?? How about considering exhaust pulse collector timing first over length??

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I know what thoughts I have on the subject - it's Vince's that I wanted.
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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by proheader » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:32 pm

then by all means DV.... head to the seminar....lol

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by Olds455 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:11 pm

Man you guys are like sharks. As soon as you think you see a place to attack, you go for it. Even if it's just a foam ice chest.

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by proheader » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 pm

LOL.... you can learn alot from a dummy.....

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by MadBill » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:07 pm

proheader wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:32 pm
then by all means DV.... head to the seminar....lol
I think you've missed a tacit element of DV's statement: "...the importance (or relative lack thereof) of equal length on primary pipes for a V8u."
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by David Vizard » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:19 pm

MadBill wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:07 pm
proheader wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:32 pm
then by all means DV.... head to the seminar....lol
I think you've missed a tacit element of DV's statement: "...the importance (or relative lack thereof) of equal length on primary pipes for a V8u."
Yes Bill, you are exactly right here. I want to know specifically what his thoughts are on the subject so I can get an insight on the subject other than mine from my dyno testing. I think I have broken some new ground here and I would like to know if anyone else is going in the same direction.

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by David Vizard » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:22 pm

proheader wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 pm
LOL.... you can learn alot from a dummy.....
--- and exactly how did this add any value to this thread??

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David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by hoffman900 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:19 pm

Calvin Elston, probably ten years ago, on here said he'll give up equal length in order to maintain large sweeping bends and placing an emphasis on flow. Hard to argue with someone whose headers have been on NASCAR Championship winners, NHRA Championship winners, WoO's, LeMans winners, Trans Am winners, and etc. The top level bent crank V8 (and other applications) headers still looks like what he was doing 20-25 years ago...
-Bob

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by MadBill » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:42 pm

I think David is alluding to going beyond accepting unequal lengths. More to come I'm sure after Thursday.
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by cjperformance » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:02 pm

I can tell you that in a 90deg V8 based on equal length primaries that the primary on the cylinders that are within 90deg of each other going by firing order/pattern are the most sensitive to negatively affecting TQ being much shorter, particularly the cylinder that is 90 deg after.
Whereas the cylinders that fire 180/270 apart are no so sensitive,, based on 1/4 mile comparisons.
Craig.

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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by modok » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:03 pm

Makes perfect sense.
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Re: Header Theory by Vince Roman from Burns @ PRI

Post by exhausted » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:16 pm

MadBill wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:42 pm
I think David is alluding to going beyond accepting unequal lengths. More to come I'm sure after Thursday.
I toyed with visiting the PRI this winter but the only fun part is getting to poke at Vince and discuss things. Alas, the bottom line is if you ask Vince a reasonable question you will usually get a reasonable answer and this can be accomplished with a phone call.

His proprietary software to make header and collector recommendations can be trusted and I use it often as a starting place for a new application I may never have seen. There are alot more variables than just length and size though but the simple stuff is what most are concerned with.

It has always been fun to "discuss" "theory" and my views have changed over the years. While we know a lot about what is happening on the exhaust side of an engine and its effects on a given engines performance, (and not just on a dyno), very few in the business I know are willing to even broach the subject. :( :(

I applaud Vince for stepping out and speaking about his perspective and hope we can get transcripts and have some good discussions in the future.
Calvin Elston
Elston Exhaust Inc.
Matthews, NC 28104
704-443-8088
Web: www.elstonheaders.com
Blog: www.exhausting101.com

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