429 sbc ls build

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slo-svt
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt »

A_VAS wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:45 pm I don't have a lot to add on your questions....but I did just use a set of those Mahle similar pistons (new p/n with 1.0/1.0/2.0)
they are a good bit lighter than stock, so plan on re-balancing your stock crank
the milled .085 heads I'm guessing you won't have any radial clearance with the valves...even though they have reliefs they won't clear radially with the milled heads.
May want to open those eyebrows up when it is in mockup state.
(i used the carbide stem mounted cutters from Lindy tools, mounted in the milled head, chucked up and spun with a drill).
Thanks for the advice on the radial clearance. I will be sure to pay close attention during assembly. The ring pack is actually why i chose Mahle over Je on the pistons. Je has shelf pistons for factory ls7 connecting rods but the rings are 1.2, 1.5, 3mm. I'm excited to get my hands on them.
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Newold1
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by Newold1 »

Let's clarify a little here. first in your posts you indicate that the car is a Z06 Corvette, so unless you make or use a big hood bump change the Holley HiRam Sam needed on their 441 (not 427) cubic inch LSX7 is in no way gonna fit !

You did state clearly STREET/STRIP, I apologize in that I guess I like to consider a car street/strip a car that spends its life mostly on the street as a dailey and some time at the strip as a racer. You did not list or quantify 3000-5000 miles max as that is a very rare transportation vehicle.

You do say that the pistons are flat tops. IN the Sam LSX7 engine they are domed and final compression ratio was 14.8 to 1 using strictly 116 octane race fuel! I suspect your compression ratio will be about 11.0 to 11.5 to 1 a major decrease!

I mentioned heating issues because its a known fact that in late model Corvettes of the Z06 type that greatly increased power levels tend to put them on the edge of overheat situations.So unless you plan some possible necessary cooling system upgrades you may end up with the car in that dilema.

I also know that Corvette Z06's N/A with big power level increase in their engines the available underhood airflows sometimes won't support the intake systems needs and major changes can be necessitated there.

The cylinder heads used on that engine were COPO LS7 CNC'd castings not stock LS7 heads and they were specially reworked out of the box for serious increased performance.

My point here is not to blast or talk down your efforts as I would love to see you attain 825HP with the exact specs you are laying out here I am just in my opinion being a conservative realistic outlook on what will most likely be the end result if you build and assemble it as you describe in detail.

I always conscribe to the idea that the amazing successes in great engine builds are achieved and usually come from strict adherence to the DETAILS

If you study carefully all the details and special work done to that SAM 441CI LSX7 engine you will realize there are seem to be some major differences in your planned build that I think will leave you short of a 825HP goal.

Get your engine built as you are specifying, get it on a good dyno in proper tune and when you get that 775-825HP @ 7500-8000 rpms I will be the first one to shout loudly your accomplishments here on any Forums you may choose.

I can eat crow with the best of them. I don't like the taste but I am pretty careful ordering it up from my menu !!
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slo-svt
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt »

Newold1 wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:05 pm
The cylinder heads used on that engine were COPO LS7 CNC'd castings not stock LS7 heads and they were specially reworked out of the box for serious increased performance.

I can eat crow with the best of them. I don't like the taste but I am pretty careful ordering it up from my menu !!
Have you by chance ever put your hands on an ls7 head? They are huge and have a raised intake runner (compared to other ls heads). I would bet there isn't as much done to those heads as you think.
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Rowdy Yates
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by Rowdy Yates »

When I get get home I'm generally tired and post to past the time. What does worked heads mean.... What your budget can afford. And who's doing the work. I've got cnc Ls3 and welded and hand ported Ls7 heads done for a. 030 over bore. Do you really want to know what this consist of and build engines. I also know enough that for a certain engine size and parts used will make a Avg or general number. So is your build special, yes to you it is but are there other builds that use the same basic stuff. There all the Same. You've got 750+ ..Several friends have similar combos. BTW all the internet stuff is funny. My fake 408 that will be done by H Squared if it doesn't make 750 I'll junk it. Not resell. That's for the first head combination.

Factory Ls3 ports are taller and bigger than the Ls7 port. Ls7 ports can be opened up depending on which head casting. Your matching Cross section with the engine size and combination intended use.... Rpm.
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by Newold1 »

Thanks Randy for putting forward the thought that in exceptional builds and results, attention to details and special extra work in not so obvious "WORKED' areas can result in extra power and performance. Little things add up and become big changes and improvements.
"IF IT AS EASY, ANYBODY COULD DO IT 11"
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by Newold1 »

Then read all the data on SAM's technical details and descriptions of their build on that engine. If that's not enough for you then do us all a favor and email SAM and request a detailed description of what they started with and finished with on those heads. I am sure they did some reliable flowbench work on the heads and would have not made the effort if it was wasted.

Talk to some good people in the industry who work with and have modified LS7 heads and tested iterations like Frankenstein, Mast, Katech, GM, Straub, Brodix, Lingenfelter and a few others.

The factory LS7 heads are a great OEM design and upgrade for the basic LS platform. Are they the best possible design or version, HELL NO! To believe that is a bit naive and short sided in my opinion. Even the factory GM Corvette race teams and the LS running GTP race teams all modify and improve the LS7 head!
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by CGT »

So, I do keep in touch with a couple of SAMS people....and recommending manufactures to people that are trying to "actually" do something is a bit silly. Its like a misguided attempt to maintain relevancy on a subject that you have no real personal experience with. That's how it comes across. How do you "work" LS7 HEADS NEWOLD or ROWDY? Making a reference to a magazine article that everyone here has read isn't helpful, nor is providing a directory to known manufacturers in the aftermarket to people that are balls deep in the subject at hand.
Last edited by CGT on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
slo-svt
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt »

Newold1 wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:11 am Then read all the data on SAM's technical details and descriptions of their build on that engine. If that's not enough for you then do us all a favor and email SAM and request a detailed description of what they started with and finished with on those heads. I am sure they did some reliable flowbench work on the heads and would have not made the effort if it was wasted.

Talk to some good people in the industry who work with and have modified LS7 heads and tested iterations like Frankenstein, Mast, Katech, GM, Straub, Brodix, Lingenfelter and a few others.

The factory LS7 heads are a great OEM design and upgrade for the basic LS platform. Are they the best possible design or version, HELL NO! To believe that is a bit naive and short sided in my opinion. Even the factory GM Corvette race teams and the LS running GTP race teams all modify and improve the LS7 head!
Your again drawing conclusions from nothing just like your second post on this tread...(I can’t possibly have a cowl hood on my z06. Also drove the car a couple hundred miles one way in 95 degree heat with 13.3:1 on pump gas with nothing more than a 180 t stat and it didn’t overheat..... big shocker the Internet isn’t always right.)I never said it was the best design. I simply stated the port is very LARGE and it had a very HIGH intake runner (3/8th higher when measuring from deck compared to an ls3 head). Don’t worry rowdy you don’t have to scour the Internet for that one. I have both sets here in my hands. Not fantasy land with your 440.
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt »

CGT wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:26 am HEY OP. Call Texas Speed, Katech, LG, Brodix, AFR, Advanced inductions, Frank, Mast, etc etc. Order their shit and run just like everyone else that ordered their stuff runs. You happy with that?
I'm not interested in wasting busy peoples time when i Intend to do all the work myself. Thanks Though. That is probably the second most helpful post in this thread. I am gonna give A_VAS the first. He is the only person who has shared first hand experience with anything i'm using.
Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world; all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it.

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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by Rowdy Yates »

Your both are tripping with yourselves.. Acting like this or any build is some magic I've been dealing with Eric Koenig for yrs....Ls engine Master! I have both Ls3 and Ls7 heads as I said @ first for a very simple 408. What head work or what does a worked head involve, I've had a Cnc program by C. Frank- Ls3 and hand Porting-Ls7 by D. Morgan ....runners, short side radius, bowls, throat, valve job, milling, welding of the exhaust valve side of the Ls7 heads for a smaller 1.55 exhaust valve, larger studs for for Ls3 heads. BTW SAM is 5 mins away down the street hit Chris Bennett with a email anytime I have I have a idea or wanting some info. Chris B. flowed C. Franks heads to verify flow and also wanted to see and test them also...Posted the results on ls1tech some time ago. I spec engines as this is my 4th one, no time for building. There All the Same, nothing special about any of them and you Won't be doing something new under the sun with a Ls7 which again I have several builds in which to refer to. 750 + @ the crank on just the parts list with Worked heads and good induction. John whom I've talked to several times has a build listed with a Ls7 making 700 to the rear wheels or Darth taking a 428 with Lingenfelter ported Ls7 heads/ LLSR and making 600+ to the rear. Or the fact that uncle Jim has a 427 hyd roller with TFS Ls7 heads & Super Vic intake that he did some short side radius and bowl work along with port matching with some plenum work. Set on 14.0 comp for E85. Made 1k+ with 300 shot. Again nothing new under the sun.
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by A_VAS »

I was poking around and found something real cool....you can set users to 'foe' list and never even have to read their nonsense.

from the FAQ page:

Friends and Foes

What are my Friends and Foes lists?You can use these lists to organise other members of the board. Members added to your friends list will be listed within your User Control Panel for quick access to see their online status and to send them private messages. Subject to template support, posts from these users may also be highlighted. If you add a user to your foes list, any posts they make will be hidden by default.
too lazy to make power w/o boost
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by Newold1 »

I think and know I have contributed a lot on this site over my time on Speedtalk. I am not going to argue experience or knowledge with you because I know how many years in racing and performance engines I have been actively practicing actual engine design, building, repair, service and use as well as my technical training, over 45 years to be close. That is why I made the don't know nothin comment.

Sounds like you must have way more experience in hands on use than I in all engine platforms and types so I will respectfully leave you two here to bash and puff your chests. It hard to be humble and I try to practice that whenever I can. You should try it sometime.

slo-vet asked for input and I gave it coming from a non-critical or not I know everything place. I was just trying to say he might want to look at and consider some things that might make his plan more achievable not just to say he could not do it. He was using the SAM engine as the basis of his ideas and I pointed out there were some important differences that got SAM to their result.

In the mean time I will get my Crow eating plate and utensils out and get them ready to eat my portion when slo-vet proves me wrong in my thoughts!

Small price to pay for my hope he achieves his stated results!
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slo-svt
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt »

Dropped some stuff off at Joe's today while he was rough honing my block. Everything looks very nice. Just ordered connecting rod and head bolts. I have to drop the crank off early next week to get balanced when the rod bolts come in. I'm thinking I might be putting a short block together here in the next couple weeks. :D
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by CGT »

Have you measured the ring groove depth?
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt »

CGT wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 pm Have you measured the ring groove depth?
I haven't done anything other than take one out of the box and take a picture. Pulled a couple rings out and thought to myself these are probably really easy to break. put everything back in box and left lol.
Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world; all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it.

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