Steve K, and Troy,
We appreciate the input you offer into the tech threads and you both help in offering the point of more than one possible solution for the poster's and the reader's needs.
Steve,
I am interested in that kit you are talking about. I am not familiar with any kits on the market for this. Most of what I have done in the EFI conversiots is in using the products made by Haltech. I have fooled a little with the earlier Holley and the Edlebrock and did not like either becuase they ovver very few tuning parameters. Maybe for most people they may be easier, but for me they are too limited in capabilities.
Kind of like comparing a same size Holley to a Carter/Edlebrock. The Carter type just does not have many tuning variables or cababilites to my knowledge except for pump poistion, jetting, and metering rods and springs. So it is for most easier to run and to tune becuase there is not much you can do with them. On the other hand, the Holley and the Demon/BG carbs have many tuning parameters of variables, so you can get it more on the money for the need.
I can do touchy solder board work, so possibly I may be able to use that kit you are talking about if it does not take up too much time in getting it all together. It is the price coupled with feature possibilities that interest me. I have not seen anything that is alreaady assembled that is wrthwhile for less than at least $1,000 and more.
Ed
Suggestions please...600hp sbc buildup
Moderator: Team
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lowflyr
This is proving to be a more difficult decision (Carb/EFI) than I had thought it would be, but I think I will try the carb approach this time.....
I have been a more or less diehard for carbs, and I really liked the speed demon that I have been using on my previous setup. Although tuning a carb does not normally intimidate me anymore, this build is a level of power I have not tried to tune before. That is making me a little nervous given the fact that I better get it right. I've got more to lose this time. But getting past the nerves of that, I'm sure I can get it dialed in short order. I really think that I should stick to a carb this time out. I would just prefer to be building a level of power that I have not before, dealing with associated issues that arise, but to not be at the same time puzzling out a new fuel injection system.
It may not be long before I start on a fuel injection setup though. I want to be well versed in my injection system before I tackle my next build in a few years, a twin turbo small block.
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The rev kit is definitely going in this motor. I'll try out the 12-773-8 Comp cam, and see what happens. My heads are now going to be later than expected....
but when they arrive they will be fitted with decent springs, 210 seat and 550 @670 lift I believe, although I will need to verify this.
Thanks guys, this is helping alot.
I have been a more or less diehard for carbs, and I really liked the speed demon that I have been using on my previous setup. Although tuning a carb does not normally intimidate me anymore, this build is a level of power I have not tried to tune before. That is making me a little nervous given the fact that I better get it right. I've got more to lose this time. But getting past the nerves of that, I'm sure I can get it dialed in short order. I really think that I should stick to a carb this time out. I would just prefer to be building a level of power that I have not before, dealing with associated issues that arise, but to not be at the same time puzzling out a new fuel injection system.
It may not be long before I start on a fuel injection setup though. I want to be well versed in my injection system before I tackle my next build in a few years, a twin turbo small block.
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The rev kit is definitely going in this motor. I'll try out the 12-773-8 Comp cam, and see what happens. My heads are now going to be later than expected....
but when they arrive they will be fitted with decent springs, 210 seat and 550 @670 lift I believe, although I will need to verify this.Thanks guys, this is helping alot.
Brad, you've made a wise decision on choosing to learn about EFI before attempting to use it. There are a lot of variables to consider at any one time when you are tuning and a turbo setup will need some extra thought.
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I would like to respond to Ed-vancedEngines post.
Ed, I purchased a Megasquirt v2.2 un-assembled kit from Glen's Garage http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/index.php Glen is a nice fellow to deal with but there are a number of other resellers if you would prefer to talk to someone else. For me, this was the first time I had soldered anything beyond maybe a wire terminal and for me it took around 6 hours to build. I learned a lot and fast. You can buy it pre-assembled too.
I suggest:
Megasquirt I ECU on a V3.0 board
MegaStim - to test your ECU out of your vehicle
Relay board if you want to control other things, like cooling fans etc
That comes to $488 if you buy pre-assembled and $250 if you're going to assemble it all yourself.
If you can, go with high impedance injectors. You'll have to work out the remaining hardware according to the build and intended use of your engine.
Take a look at http://megamanual.com/ - that's where you'll find all of the documentation, build instructions and bill of materials, PCB layout stuff etc.
The most important tip I can give you if you are going to do this unaided - read EVERYTHING and then make your decisions up front as to which hardware you are going to use, VR with 36-1 toothed wheel, EDIS, etc. Reading everything will help you understand how EFI really works and how it has been implemented in MegaSquirt. Making hardware decisions up front saves you messing about later when you build your board. If you get stuck there are a number of forums that you will get expert help from. http://www.msefi.com/ Of course, you can always come back and ask me questions too.
I had a lot of fun setting up my stuff and all of the errors I have made along the way, in terms of both hardware and tuning, were as a result of *me* not paying attention to the documentation.
Soldering the MS unit taught me a bit about electronics and being the nutter I am, it gave me the desire to go that little bit further. I have now built and run a telemetry setup for a race car we have running around a small track. The unit is hooked to a laptop via RF and allows us to view every single thing that is happening inside of that unit while the car shoots around the track. We can make changes dynamically, record data logs remotely and really piss our driver off by cutting the spark until the car becomes a sack of potatoes to drive.
Telemetry allows us to tune things that you can't get to with a dyno. The insights gained are invaluable.
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I would like to respond to Ed-vancedEngines post.
Ed, I purchased a Megasquirt v2.2 un-assembled kit from Glen's Garage http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/index.php Glen is a nice fellow to deal with but there are a number of other resellers if you would prefer to talk to someone else. For me, this was the first time I had soldered anything beyond maybe a wire terminal and for me it took around 6 hours to build. I learned a lot and fast. You can buy it pre-assembled too.
I suggest:
Megasquirt I ECU on a V3.0 board
MegaStim - to test your ECU out of your vehicle
Relay board if you want to control other things, like cooling fans etc
That comes to $488 if you buy pre-assembled and $250 if you're going to assemble it all yourself.
If you can, go with high impedance injectors. You'll have to work out the remaining hardware according to the build and intended use of your engine.
Take a look at http://megamanual.com/ - that's where you'll find all of the documentation, build instructions and bill of materials, PCB layout stuff etc.
The most important tip I can give you if you are going to do this unaided - read EVERYTHING and then make your decisions up front as to which hardware you are going to use, VR with 36-1 toothed wheel, EDIS, etc. Reading everything will help you understand how EFI really works and how it has been implemented in MegaSquirt. Making hardware decisions up front saves you messing about later when you build your board. If you get stuck there are a number of forums that you will get expert help from. http://www.msefi.com/ Of course, you can always come back and ask me questions too.
I had a lot of fun setting up my stuff and all of the errors I have made along the way, in terms of both hardware and tuning, were as a result of *me* not paying attention to the documentation.
Soldering the MS unit taught me a bit about electronics and being the nutter I am, it gave me the desire to go that little bit further. I have now built and run a telemetry setup for a race car we have running around a small track. The unit is hooked to a laptop via RF and allows us to view every single thing that is happening inside of that unit while the car shoots around the track. We can make changes dynamically, record data logs remotely and really piss our driver off by cutting the spark until the car becomes a sack of potatoes to drive.
Telemetry allows us to tune things that you can't get to with a dyno. The insights gained are invaluable.
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Troy Patterson
- Guru
- Posts: 3416
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:18 am
- Location:
600 hp
Thanks Ed for your coments, and Stevek, I respect your position on EFI.
Brad, tell us about your tuning process as you go, and I'm sure we'll collectively give you some helpful advice to help you through it.
I've probably belabored the whole carb/efi thing for now.
Troy Patterson TMPCarbs.net TMP Carbs
Brad, tell us about your tuning process as you go, and I'm sure we'll collectively give you some helpful advice to help you through it.
I've probably belabored the whole carb/efi thing for now.
Troy Patterson TMPCarbs.net TMP Carbs
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lowflyr
Steve K,
I have tuned EFI before and I really did like the electromotive tec3 setup. But I have to say, that megasquirt system sounds mighty enticing. I never realized that level of control was possible for such little cash. It sounds outstanding.
Troy,
I am sure I'll be writing again once the parts finally start going together, this is going to be one of those times that its just better to ask for help than to make any assumptions.
Just wish those heads would get here sooner.........not sounding real likely that I'll see them before mid march now.
I have tuned EFI before and I really did like the electromotive tec3 setup. But I have to say, that megasquirt system sounds mighty enticing. I never realized that level of control was possible for such little cash. It sounds outstanding.
Troy,
I am sure I'll be writing again once the parts finally start going together, this is going to be one of those times that its just better to ask for help than to make any assumptions.
Just wish those heads would get here sooner.........not sounding real likely that I'll see them before mid march now.
Been following this thread with some intrest as I am currently working on two 383 buildups, both to be around 600hp. one is a new build the other is a freshen, step it up another 50hp build. The freshen up unit had the comp cam xr292r in it. I don`t think that cam will get you to your goal of 600hp.
I estimate we were at around 540 to 560hp with that cam.this engine had AFR210 heads,super victor intake, 11.6 compression, 750 holley.
It went 124 mph,car was`ent hooking a went 11.50.
Also the cam was a cast core. which I did`nt know till after it was purchased and there was a dist gear problem. hope this helps.
1 engine will run a lunati 50199 the other will be getting a Custom cam co
by Harold Brookshire
I estimate we were at around 540 to 560hp with that cam.this engine had AFR210 heads,super victor intake, 11.6 compression, 750 holley.
It went 124 mph,car was`ent hooking a went 11.50.
Also the cam was a cast core. which I did`nt know till after it was purchased and there was a dist gear problem. hope this helps.
1 engine will run a lunati 50199 the other will be getting a Custom cam co
by Harold Brookshire
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lowflyr
Jginger,
That's exactly what I was looking for. I was a little suspicious of the cam being the limiting factor. I will be running 1.6's with this cam and the heads are the new eliminators. Also considering the additional 23 ci (406) and a larger carb (likely 850+) then I optimistically *might* squeak out 600hp. I was also talking with a few people online in the past couple days that have run this cam in 383's. I have been told that they idle fine at 900rpm, and they don't really have any significant driveablilty issues. Just a little weak until they come up on cam. This sounds good to me. I think I'll still try it out, and if I end up at 580hp or something, then I can accept that. 540hp is too far off my mark though.
That being said, the engine will be dyno'd on a 'conservstive' dyno (so I've been told). How conservative, I don't know......watch it tell me I'm 400hp
Joking of course. Anyway, the dyno is at A&J automotive in the valley of Nova Scotia. Some of you may have heard of the owners, Allyn and John Armstrong. They have a helluva reputation for building very strong engines. If anyone can fill me in on just how conservative their dyno is, that would be awesome. I'll be down to visit them today, I'll ask Allyn about it.
That's exactly what I was looking for. I was a little suspicious of the cam being the limiting factor. I will be running 1.6's with this cam and the heads are the new eliminators. Also considering the additional 23 ci (406) and a larger carb (likely 850+) then I optimistically *might* squeak out 600hp. I was also talking with a few people online in the past couple days that have run this cam in 383's. I have been told that they idle fine at 900rpm, and they don't really have any significant driveablilty issues. Just a little weak until they come up on cam. This sounds good to me. I think I'll still try it out, and if I end up at 580hp or something, then I can accept that. 540hp is too far off my mark though.
That being said, the engine will be dyno'd on a 'conservstive' dyno (so I've been told). How conservative, I don't know......watch it tell me I'm 400hp
Joking of course. Anyway, the dyno is at A&J automotive in the valley of Nova Scotia. Some of you may have heard of the owners, Allyn and John Armstrong. They have a helluva reputation for building very strong engines. If anyone can fill me in on just how conservative their dyno is, that would be awesome. I'll be down to visit them today, I'll ask Allyn about it.