Which Megasquirt?

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Keith Morganstein
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Which Megasquirt?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:19 pm

Looking for feedback on what Megasquirt system to use.
This is a retro fit onto a 4.9L (300) Ford inline six.
It will be turbocharged and intercooled.

I will use a factory EFI manifold & injector location (6 port injection) there are no electronics in the vehicle now to piggyback.

Megasquirt 2, microsquirt or Megasquirt 3 are being considered.

I have not used Megasquirt before and input is appreciated.
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396monteSS
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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by 396monteSS » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:10 pm

I'm a fan of the simplicity of Microsquirt and I have used it on a couple engines now . Microsquirt is limited in a few ways. it can only drive a solenoid style IAC valve (may not be a problem if your 300 has a solenoid style valve) it is also limited on programmable outputs you have basically 4 programmable outputs that get taken up very quickly. Also only two of he outputs are PWM the other two are on/off only. If you use an IAC valve on the "fidle" circuit then one out put for fans and the "Tachout" circuit for boost control you are only left with one more programmable circuit. Last big thing is youre pretty much stuck with batch fire on anything with more than 2 cylinders because Microsquirt only has two injector drivers. If youre okay with all that then Microsquirt is hard to beat for extremely simple easy to use efi. Of course if youre looking to get more indepth with Sequential injection and multiple outputs you should look elsewhere. For my stuff (offroad buggies) its hard to beat the simplicity of Microsquirt though.

Of course there are add on circuits that remedy all of Microsquirt's shortcomings but that also defeats the purpose of Microsquirt too.

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by DariusRacing » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:23 pm

Short answer:
Just go ms3.


Long answer: (I/O = inputs/outputs)
Microsquirt can get things done you just will not have more then a couple inputs/outputs left over. MS2 basically a microsquirt with 11 or 12 more spots for , no sequential injection with either. Ms3 somewhat the same as MS2 but with built in datalogging and expandability, can add up to 37 extra I/O set up the same (batch fire and wasted spark) as a MS2 with expansion card. Any of them can get the job done, just how much extra stuff u want to control as well. I do believe u can add a GPIO for more I/O to all of them but cheaper to start with more I/O then you think you need rather than add a box for more. I'd only really recommend the microsquirt for N/A cars honestly not enough I/O unless you have other boxes to control stuff or only want to run the engine.

Edit:
396montess has good information regarding microsquirt . If you want to do more then that I'd recommend MS2/3.

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by lowriderglen » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:57 pm

I run both the MS3 and 3X on my dirt race cars. Both units have been easy to run and tune without any problems.

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by Belgian1979 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:18 pm

no sense in going to ms2.

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by exhaustgases » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:35 am

Now where is the best place to get it?

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by jred » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:18 am

I built a MS2 ver 3.0 I didn't know much about fuel injection and have it on a turbocharged VW I have it up and running but not completey tuned yet I was a a loss because I was not familiar with fuel injection let alone electronics but followed instructions and bought their simulator card and all and all everything works well,,

I did have some one that has done one or two before and he helped me,, my VW is a all most 2500cc engine with dual throttle bodies and 8 injectors wide O2 gm coolant sensors relay board and it controls a ford EDIS 4
system for ignition,, since its a VW I had to make almost everything for it total cost with WALBRO f/p wide band sensor and controller fuel injector rails was around 1800.00 but most everything is new not scrafed up from used pieces,,
check this website www.megamanual.com it will answer most all your questions it depends on what you want to do and if you want to build it or just buy it and put it on and tune it,, I wasn't sure but needed to learn more about fuel injection and didn't even know what IAC or PWM are,,

The manual says that someone with electronic experience should be able to assemble a MS2 in about 8 hours it took me 40 plus hours because I had to lookup everything,,

The guys at www.diyauotune.com sell all the stuff that you will need and also very good about helping you out if you need something,,

Oh and by the way we have a MS3 running on a drag car 2lt pinto twin turbos alky and 38 pounds of boost,,

There was or is a guy that used to come to this website but I haven't heard from him in a while called dieselgeek I think that he posts at y/b he also works for blueprint engines I think he runs a Bonneville car so it shouldn't be hard to get a hold of him..

MS1 is for fuel injection only but I guess that you can do more with it now with add ons.
MS2 is for fuel injection and ignition and there is like 4 versions of it
MS3 does a lot more but is my understanding that all chips in it are surface
mounted and can not be changed but I don't know for sure as the 1 I have is a MS2 ver 3.0.

Hope this helps you and good luck with your project

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:58 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:35 am
Now where is the best place to get it?
I’m looking at DIY auto tune (https://www.diyautotune.com) because of the support they offer. It’s a first time project for me and the support should be very helpful. In fact that’s the main reason for megasquirt. There are several paths for low cost EFI, speeduino, hacking GM pcms, etc... but the megasquirt platform seems the most used and most supported.
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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:16 am

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

This is a basic street only deal. My own toy, not for a customer. An old pick-up truck with a turbocharged 300 six. About 300 HP.
I’m fine with with batch fuel and wasted spark. I want to drive six LS (or similar) coils. I want timing control and knock control. If MS2 will acomplish that, it’s probably enough. I think it can, but there is so much info, some of it’s confusing.

The whole build is budget DIY. For the experience and just to say I built it for under $$$$. I have lots of parts kicking around.

It’s time for me to get into this. I have plenty experience with electronics and various controls, but have never ventured into an EFI retrofit.
With more reading, and input here, I’m ruling out the microsquirt.
I’m thinking of the MS2 3.0 kit. But, if it can’t do what I need, I’ll go to MS3/MS3X.
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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by Belgian1979 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:16 pm

Keith Morganstein wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:58 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:35 am
Now where is the best place to get it?
I’m looking at DIY auto tune (https://www.diyautotune.com) because of the support they offer. It’s a first time project for me and the support should be very helpful. In fact that’s the main reason for megasquirt. There are several paths for low cost EFI, speeduino, hacking GM pcms, etc... but the megasquirt platform seems the most used and most supported.
That's were I get my stuff except O2 sensors.
MS2 is on its way out. I originally started with MS2 but soon changed to an MS3X. No real development on MS2 anymore. MS3 offers timed injection and things like COP/CNP. Well worth it imo.

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by NORSK » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:49 pm

Keith Morganstein wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:19 pm
Looking for feedback on what Megasquirt system to use.
This is a retro fit onto a 4.9L (300) Ford inline six.
It will be turbocharged and intercooled.

I will use a factory EFI manifold & injector location (6 port injection) there are no electronics in the vehicle now to piggyback.

Megasquirt 2, microsquirt or Megasquirt 3 are being considered.

I have not used Megasquirt before and input is appreciated.
Check these out http://www.maxxecu.com/
Way better/easier than MS and good support

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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:55 pm

NORSK wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:49 pm
Check these out http://www.maxxecu.com/
Way better/easier than MS and good support
I had not heard of maxxecu. Good looking system. Fast processor with a lot of features.
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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:11 pm

Belgian1979 wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:16 pm
MS2 is on its way out. I originally started with MS2 but soon changed to an MS3X. No real development on MS2 anymore. MS3 offers timed injection and things like COP/CNP. Well worth it imo.
After a lot searching for info (and not finding what I wanted), I finally found my way to the “ msextra hardware manuals”. What I find is MS2, 3, 3X all have the same main board and core. Then additional boards are added for 3 and 3X, it’s not until 3X that it provide full sequential injection and ignition for up to 8 cylinders . I also found With some minor mods MS2 would do what I need. (Internal wiring mods for up to six Logic outputs for LS type coils)
However, for $100. more, I can buy the MS3 kit.

I know there are many better, more expensive systems out there. A big part of this project for me is the educational aspect.
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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by SixHemis » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:59 pm

Keith Morganstein wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:11 pm

I know there are many better, more expensive systems out there. A big part of this project for me is the educational aspect.
MS is perfect for that. A background in electronics is an asset, but not essential.
I have been running Megasquirts since the first group buy way back when.

I currently have a 15 year old MS I with the MS II daughterboard running fuel and spark on a 480 inch Hemi in a street/strip car.

I'm using a Ford EDIS module and V8 coils in the factory wasted-spark configuration. I adapted a 36-1 crank wheel and sensor from an Escort.

You might want to consider the EDIS adaptation for your application.
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Re: Which Megasquirt?

Post by emsvitil » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:02 am

A microsquirt can run up to 4 wasted spark logic level coils.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't pair logic COP (1-6,2-5,3-4). You'd run 6 logic COP but the microsquirt would think it's running 3 wasted spark pairs.
Ed

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