Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

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Charliesauto
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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Charliesauto » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:39 am

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:50 pm
E.R. Racing wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:32 pm
Warp Speed wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:20 pm
Being this is a "Race Engine" challenge, there shouldn't be any tolerance in the rules. It's either right or it isn't. It is all simple measuring and math when it comes to ci, cr, lift ect. Set a temp standard of the block and go. It is what it is....
I agree. Rules are rules.
YEP ... fix it and come back with a vengeance.
Without divulging any secrets, can you provide some basic info on your engine and maybe even highlight the rules?

Wondering what displacement, compression, carb size etc?

Can you post the dyno test info?

Thanks

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am

I still can't believe they allow valve rotation in the inline class.....
Nothing "inline" about a c3! Lol

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CamKing
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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CamKing » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:22 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am
I still can't believe they allow valve rotation in the inline class.....
Nothing "inline" about a c3! Lol
Again, how did NASCAR allow the C3 head?

Here's the actual rule:
†Inline Valve/Non-Canted
Inline valves and OEM intake/exhaust architecture. Non-canted but not inline (e.g. 409 Chevy). Valves do not
have to match OEM angle.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CamKing » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:31 am

Charliesauto wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:39 am

Without divulging any secrets, can you provide some basic info on your engine and maybe even highlight the rules?

Wondering what displacement, compression, carb size etc?

Can you post the dyno test info?
Here's the actual rules: http://raceenginechallenge.com/rules-2018/

Randy built a 383ci SB Ford, with Yates C3 heads. It made 752hp @ 7,100rpm, which is exactly where I designed the cam to make peak HP.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
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jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CamKing » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:39 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:20 pm
Being this is a "Race Engine" challenge, there shouldn't be any tolerance in the rules. It's either right or it isn't. It is all simple measuring and math when it comes to ci, cr, lift ect. Set a temp standard of the block and go. It is what it is....
One huge problem with that.
I can hand 20 engine builders a part, and a micrometer, and get 20 different measurements.
We also don't have an environmentally controlled clean room to do all the measuring.
I really wouldn't want to DQ someone because the Mic is reading off a few tenths, or because the temp is throwing off the measurements.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:09 am

CamKing wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:22 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am
I still can't believe they allow valve rotation in the inline class.....
Nothing "inline" about a c3! Lol
Again, how did NASCAR allow the C3 head?

Here's the actual rule:
†Inline Valve/Non-Canted
Inline valves and OEM intake/exhaust architecture. Non-canted but not inline (e.g. 409 Chevy). Valves do not
have to match OEM angle.
Don't remember Fords ever running an "inline" head. They have been grandfathered around the "Australian Windsor" since the start of the small block days.
That rule is bs as far as I'm concerned. First thing you do is rotate......then cant. Just the evolution of the performance cylinder head.

Just saying........

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:16 am

And to make it clear, events like this are very hard to do, and it sounds like it went very smoothly for a first time deal. Everyone involved should be commended.
That being said, from an engine guy point of view, with rules like that, the c3 is a no brainer! Too big if an advantage for a true inline to overcome. Imo

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CamKing » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:09 am
CamKing wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:22 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am
I still can't believe they allow valve rotation in the inline class.....
Nothing "inline" about a c3! Lol
Again, how did NASCAR allow the C3 head?

Here's the actual rule:
†Inline Valve/Non-Canted
Inline valves and OEM intake/exhaust architecture. Non-canted but not inline (e.g. 409 Chevy). Valves do not
have to match OEM angle.
Don't remember Fords ever running an "inline" head. They have been grandfathered around the "Australian Windsor" since the start of the small block days.
That rule is bs as far as I'm concerned. First thing you do is rotate......then cant. Just the evolution of the performance cylinder head.

Just saying........
So you want a 409 Chevy to have to run in the same class as a SB2 ?
Do you think a C3 has an advantage over a 13 deg All Pro head ?
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449

Walter R. Malik
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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:25 am

CamKing wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:22 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am
I still can't believe they allow valve rotation in the inline class.....
Nothing "inline" about a c3! Lol
Again, how did NASCAR allow the C3 head?

Here's the actual rule:
†Inline Valve/Non-Canted
Inline valves and OEM intake/exhaust architecture. Non-canted but not inline (e.g. 409 Chevy). Valves do not
have to match OEM angle.
There was also an example given in the rules ... (e.g. 409 Chevy) head.

That is pretty much the same thing but, just having no combustion chamber.

That C3 head intake port is only about half the allowed 2" raised above the deck.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:29 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:16 am
And to make it clear, events like this are very hard to do, and it sounds like it went very smoothly for a first time deal. Everyone involved should be commended.
That being said, from an engine guy point of view, with rules like that, the c3 is a no brainer! Too big if an advantage for a true inline to overcome. Imo
Actually ... the C3H is even better because it has an intake port raised even .400" more but, I couldn't find a pair in the allotted time.
The C3H was never a NASCAR legal head so, there are not a lot of them out there.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by swampbuggy » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:35 am

Warp speed would my cylinder head have qualified for this challenge? Mark H.

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:50 am

CamKing wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:09 am
CamKing wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:22 am


Again, how did NASCAR allow the C3 head?

Here's the actual rule:
†Inline Valve/Non-Canted
Inline valves and OEM intake/exhaust architecture. Non-canted but not inline (e.g. 409 Chevy). Valves do not
have to match OEM angle.
Don't remember Fords ever running an "inline" head. They have been grandfathered around the "Australian Windsor" since the start of the small block days.
That rule is bs as far as I'm concerned. First thing you do is rotate......then cant. Just the evolution of the performance cylinder head.

Just saying........
So you want a 409 Chevy to have to run in the same class as a SB2 ?
Do you think a C3 has an advantage over a 13 deg All Pro head ?
Who would build a 409?!? Lol
Apologize in advance to whoever did, but really?!? Hahaha

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:51 am

Charliesauto wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:39 am
Walter R. Malik wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:50 pm
E.R. Racing wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:32 pm


I agree. Rules are rules.
YEP ... fix it and come back with a vengeance.
Without divulging any secrets, can you provide some basic info on your engine and maybe even highlight the rules?

Wondering what displacement, compression, carb size etc?

Can you post the dyno test info?

Thanks
Realistically ... there are no secrets. It is simply a mid 1990's NASCAR engine with a roller cam and tunnel ram manifold. With a 1/4" more offset ground stroke to go from 358 to 383 cubic inches in order to be legal for the lower end of the rules engine size.

257/268 @.050" camshaft ... 2 older 950 Holley carbs with annular boosters installed. dragster step headers 1 3/4" to 1 7/8".
Last edited by Walter R. Malik on Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:53 am

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:29 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:16 am
And to make it clear, events like this are very hard to do, and it sounds like it went very smoothly for a first time deal. Everyone involved should be commended.
That being said, from an engine guy point of view, with rules like that, the c3 is a no brainer! Too big if an advantage for a true inline to overcome. Imo
Actually ... the C3H is even better because it has an intake port raised even .400" more but, I couldn't find a pair in the allotted time.
The C3H was never a NASCAR legal head so, there are not a lot of them out there.
See what a can of worms it opens?!?

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Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by GARY C » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:09 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:09 am
CamKing wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:22 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am
I still can't believe they allow valve rotation in the inline class.....
Nothing "inline" about a c3! Lol
Again, how did NASCAR allow the C3 head?

Here's the actual rule:
†Inline Valve/Non-Canted
Inline valves and OEM intake/exhaust architecture. Non-canted but not inline (e.g. 409 Chevy). Valves do not
have to match OEM angle.
Don't remember Fords ever running an "inline" head. They have been grandfathered around the "Australian Windsor" since the start of the small block days.
That rule is bs as far as I'm concerned. First thing you do is rotate......then cant. Just the evolution of the performance cylinder head.

Just saying........
What was the structure of the engine that ran head to head with his?
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