Volumetric Efficiency

[MadBill]

A slight quibble David: Inertia refers also to the ability of a mass to maintain its velocity in a straight line.

[Warp Speed]

Sometimes our technical vocabulary adds to our confusion rather than to its elimination.

Inertia refers to the ability of a mass to remain at rest; to resist movement.

Momentum refers to the energy contained by an object due to its mass and velocity.

Pressure waves do not have mass, but they do have velocity, often traveling in both directions.

Air velocity refers to air particle velocity, which is usually much slower than the velocity of pressure waves.
Particle velocity is the velocity of a molecule of air which has mass.
Since it is the action of pressure waves that cause air particle motion, it is easy to see why particle velocity
cannot exceed wave velocity.

What he said^^^^^^^ LOL

That is exactly how it has been explained to me anyway, by another doctor.

As I said before, it may have been simply a case of semantics, but people often get confused about what is really happening.

[Desertrunner]

As I understand it Inertia is defined differently. A moving object can have inertia
a property of matter by which it continues in its existing state of rest or uniform motion in a straight line, unless that state is changed by an external force.

The graph I posted on the intake transducer is the variation of the pressure at back of valve. The intake see's pulses or pressure waves the size of which can be changed by varying the length of the intake and the diameter. I think everyone would accept that if you have a restrictive intake the air pressure behind the valve will drop below 1 bar for most of or all of the IVO period. When you now close the intake valve for a period the air continues to pour into the intake and because there is no were to go the pressure will rise above 1 bar for period of time.

Warp Speed wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:23 am
I believe we are mistaking pressure waves and inertia as being the same.......?

I am not mistaking them they are one and the same, the pressure is created because you are stopping the air and it is resisting it which is inertia.
Getting a higher VE is done by using that inertia or desire of the air to continue to fill the combustion chamber.

Okay so now I am interested to hear why Inertia and a pressure wave are being confused.

[Warp Speed]

As I understand it Inertia is defined differently. A moving object can have inertia
a property of matter by which it continues in its existing state of rest or uniform motion in a straight line, unless that state is changed by an external force.

The graph I posted on the intake transducer is the variation of the pressure at back of valve. The intake see's pulses or pressure waves the size of which can be changed by varying the length of the intake and the diameter. I think everyone would accept that if you have a restrictive intake the air pressure behind the valve will drop below 1 bar for most of or all of the IVO period. When you now close the intake valve for a period the air continues to pour into the intake and because there is no were to go the pressure will rise above 1 bar for period of time.

Warp Speed wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:23 am
I believe we are mistaking pressure waves and inertia as being the same.......?

I am not mistaking them they are one and the same, the pressure is created because you are stopping the air and it is resisting it which is inertia.
Getting a higher VE is done by using that inertia or desire of the air to continue to fill the combustion chamber.

Okay so now I am interested to hear why Inertia and a pressure wave are being confused.

How much inertia weight do air particles have?
It is "pressure differentials" that cause the "pressure waves". The inertia from the moving air particles contribute to this, but in a very small way. As David R stated, the particle mass can't move faster than the pressure waves, so which is the biggest contributor?!?
That is what I was trying to get across from the begining.
I think............?!? LOL

[Desertrunner]

How much inertia weight do air particles have?
It is "pressure differentials" that cause the "pressure waves". The inertia from the moving air particles contribute to this, but in a very small way. As David R stated, the particle mass can't move faster than the pressure waves, so which is the biggest contributor?!?
That is what I was trying to get across from the begining.
I think............?!? LOL

Warp Speed
I see it that air mass and speed are directly related to the pressure wave. The formula for Kinetic energy (Inertia) is 1/2MVsq
What we find is that if you can get the pressure to swing neg when the valve opens then go positive enough before the IVC again we get the best VE

[Firedome8]

Is the density increased at the wave front ? Does the wave always move at the local speed of sound? At what point is it called a finite pressure wave ???? Do atoms,,molecules ever travel at the speed of the wave?
Been trying to visualize this phenomena for a long time.

[nitro2]

I believe we are mistaking pressure waves and inertia as being the same.......?

I know exactly what is going on there is no confusion. But you have reminded me why I hate forums so much so I will spare you any more comments from me as I shouldn't have wasted my time posting the R&D data. I thought people might learn something but I was wrong.

Well having read through what you wrote, I'm not so sure you do know exactly what is going on......but on the plus side I'm not going to waste your time or mine arguing about.

[Desertrunner]

I believe we are mistaking pressure waves and inertia as being the same.......?

I know exactly what is going on there is no confusion. But you have reminded me why I hate forums so much so I will spare you any more comments from me as I shouldn't have wasted my time posting the R&D data. I thought people might learn something but I was wrong.

Well having read through what you wrote, I'm not so sure you do know exactly what is going on......but on the plus side I'm not going to waste your time or mine arguing about.

Yep I think you are right I am just a dumb ass farmers so its all a bit beyond me, mustn't have the IQ high enough to understand this stuff, so best I bow out and leave it to guys like you that have it all sorted.
Keep well.

[Warp Speed]

How much inertia weight do air particles have?
It is "pressure differentials" that cause the "pressure waves". The inertia from the moving air particles contribute to this, but in a very small way. As David R stated, the particle mass can't move faster than the pressure waves, so which is the biggest contributor?!?
That is what I was trying to get across from the begining.
I think............?!? LOL

Warp Speed
I see it that air mass and speed are directly related to the pressure wave. The formula for Kinetic energy (Inertia) is 1/2MVsq
What we find is that if you can get the pressure to swing neg when the valve opens then go positive enough before the IVC again we get the best VE

Why would you want the the port pressure negative at IVO?
I must have misunderstood you?

[Warp Speed]

I know exactly what is going on there is no confusion. But you have reminded me why I hate forums so much so I will spare you any more comments from me as I shouldn't have wasted my time posting the R&D data. I thought people might learn something but I was wrong.

Well having read through what you wrote, I'm not so sure you do know exactly what is going on......but on the plus side I'm not going to waste your time or mine arguing about.

Yep I think you are right I am just a dumb ass farmers so its all a bit beyond me, mustn't have the IQ high enough to understand this stuff, so best I bow out and leave it to guys like you that have it all sorted.
Keep well.

And you say that to a guy that owns a successful pressure analysis business! Lol
Really, you need to listen to some of these guys.

[swampbuggy]

Warp speed I would certainly agree with you on that question. Mark H.

[Desertrunner]

Warp Speed,
I don't do well on public forums and I shouldn't post on them at all, I need to learn my lesson and stay to hell away. As I said I am just a dumb farmer and don't know anything. Can't contribute to the discussion with any sensible knowledge so I won't.

[Roundybout]

When the intake closes the air comes to a stop. It builds up pressure which is some formula using density and velocity and what not. The air still coming in hits the air that is already stopped and it stops too. That stopped air grows in size. Isn't it in this zone that pressure waves and sound waves work their magic? The fuel/air mixture itself isn't moving. The wave moves through it without being of it. How would one describe inertial ram tuning?

[digger]

I'd describe it as non inertial

[user-17438]

Port energy