New Ferrari Turbo Patent

[MikeD]

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/ferrari ... em-patent/

[hoffman900]

So the ability to make boost (and the amount) is decoupled from rpm. That’s pretty awesome. Kudos to Ferrari.

[Schurkey]

It's not a turbocharger...it's an electrically-driven centrifugal supercharger powered by a turbogenerator.

Clever, but I don't see it as earthshattering.

[dwilliams]

Borg/Warner was promoting something very similar back ten or fifteen years ago...

[peejay]

Isn't F1 doing this now to some degree? I thought I'd read somewhere that they had that capability.

On the other hand, if you'd ever driven a modern turbo car, you'd see there's no real need until you get into laboriously small engines that need boost for when the A/C kicks in. The 2 liter engines feel like big V6s and them Ecoboosts are shocking for a 2.7l.

With direct injection and variable cam timing, you can idle the engines at atmospheric manifold pressure anyway. When the throttle pedal is merely a torque request, you can do all SORTS of fun stuff.

[The Radius Kid]

Sneaky buggers.
That's interesting.

[BigBlocksOnTop2]

Any time you convert one energy form to another you loose efficiency....

[volodkovich]

How do such simple patents get granted? A kid could have come up with that, its hardly an invention.

[Newold1]

Nothing really new here just another variation on applying elecric motor to drive a compressor.

Audi, BMW, and Volvo and others have already submitted patent applications for these systems and some date back to 2011. Audi looks to possibly to be the first to offer this engine option in some more standard models. Supposedly available in some 2019 models. Not many have the coin to secure the Ferrari offering.

[Circlotron]

Any time you convert one energy form to another you loose efficiency....

From high entropy energy to low entropy, definitely. E.G heat to electricity. Maybe 45% efficient best case.
From low entropy energy to high entropy, e.g. electricity to heat, 100% efficient.

[mk e]

Any time you convert one energy form to another you loose efficiency....

and add weight.

I assume they are running it at stupid high voltage and maybe liquid cooling the motor and generator to help with weight.

I didn't see it in the patent but I wonder if they are also trying into a hybrid battery system? They need storage somewhere and I can't imagine they'd add even more weight with another separate battery system.

[jsgarage]

How can such a simple thing be patented? Back when I was working for a living in Corporate USA, a company lawyer once said, "A patent isn't really valid until its been challenged and successfully defended in U.S. Court".

[mk e]

How can such a simple thing be patented?

Most patents are for simple (once you see it) things. To get a patent the idea was to be "non-obvious", but generally the simple fact the no one has done it yet is considered proof that it's not obvious.

[Kevin Johnson]

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[peejay]

Any time you convert one energy form to another you loose efficiency....

While true, there are tradeoffs.

Like converting crankshaft power to electricity in the alternator so that you can drive an electric fan, instead of having a belt driven fan.

You're doing two more energy conversions, but the gain is that your cooling airflow is now decoupled from engine speed.


Likewise, with a turbo, you would be able to optimize the turbine for high RPM flow and make up the low end electrically. The net result is more power, without sacrificing good response.