Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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SchmidtMotorWorks
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Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:17 am

Image

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-rac ... e-conquest

Some of you may have heard about WJ going land speed racing.
Some of the people involved:
Rick Yacoucci (experienced land speed racer car builder)
Warren Johnson (veteran Pro-Stock drag racer)
Greg Hogue (MaxSpool Engineering, many racing activities)

I am contributing a little CAD work to the project.
If you would like to see some of the CAD work in progress, you can see it here in OnShape. The team agreed to make it public.

They are in the stage of exploring what engine configurations can fit within the chassis and body they have.

Here is a public link to a portion of the chassis, body and engine block.

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/81f63 ... 5ec9a28763

More detail will be added as choices are explored.

I am not sure if this link requires an OnShape registration to see or not.
If it does, anyone get one for free.
It s a good CAD software that you can use on the web.
This may be the future of CAD for a large portion of industry.
Every CAD company is working to catch-up to some of the work OnShape has accomplished in miraculous short time.
You can even use it with a phone or tablet.
http://www.schmidtmotorworks.com Aerospace Machine Work: Prototypes, Tooling, Molds.

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by GLHS60 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:24 am

Appreciate the info and link!!

Thanks
Randy
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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by Dragsinger » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:30 am

a very cool project, please keep us posted with the progress
Larry Woodfin, Flyn with the Race Bird

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by steve cowan » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:37 pm

thanks for the info,
i read the link,WJ will make 3 hp /ci at 260 ci naturally aspirated that will be exciting in itself and working with maskins what a combo,a lot of years there of experience.
i enjoyed following WJ career in pro stock since i was a kid,he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way but the work ethic and drive was relentless,he is my favorite after the late Lee Sheperd,
thanks for sharing,
steve c

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by exhaustgases » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:48 pm

Stupid question here.
So is it not legal for some reason to have very small controllable wings on vehicles like in the photo? Personally I would want a way to keep it on the ground if for some reason it decided to start flying. Same goes for high speed boats. Its just not smart to die over some ones goofy rules, if that is why they never have controllable wings.

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by jacksoni » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:16 pm

not legal

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by exhaustgases » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:23 pm

jacksoni wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:16 pm
not legal
Then crashing and dying is. Sounds like some rules need to change. Anything over 100mph should have emergency aerodynamic controls, if that was so years ago, many lives could have been saved.

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by In-Tech » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:37 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:23 pm
jacksoni wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:16 pm
not legal
Then crashing and dying is. Sounds like some rules need to change. Anything over 100mph should have emergency aerodynamic controls, if that was so years ago, many lives could have been saved.
I know you are not making light of this. I've lost a few due to "blowovers" The latest was Mike Fiore, Outerlimits. He was running the outer edge.

The aerodynamics on one of these vehicles is truly in Jon's realm. The reality is you cannot simulate a bump or a shear in wind and I wish the best for anyone pushing the limits.
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
-Carl

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by jacksoni » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:41 pm

All racing has its dangers. I am going to say I see far more crashes watching drag racing than at Bonneville. The car under consideration above ran 370+ today. Properly designed liners rarely have trouble. Far more spins or crashes occur with high HP converted street cars both vintage and modern. Indeed going sideways things tend to fly. One of the real issues that is often ignored is the balance of aerodynamic forces with mechanical traction. As power has increased traction becomes more limited to non existent. The last fatal crash at Bonneville that I recall was a well experienced driver with a modified roadster ( I think) . Problem is we don't hear final analysis about incidents but do get rule changes for safety. Rumor on the above mentioned fatality was that he hit the N2O at about 260, spun the wheels and lost traction, flew and crashed. Aerodynamic devices would not have helped. The fix that many use is adding weight, one of the only types of racing where more weight can help and is used, sometimes hundreds ( or thousands) of pounds. As long as mechanical traction is in play ( no tire slip/spin) there is no problem. But weight in the back of the car or at or behind the CG is a spin asking to happen as soon as wheels spin. Aero devices would not have helped. So you ask, why not use wings and related devices to add traction rather than weight. Like the dragsters and F1 etc. Couple reasons one of which is rules which allow or not. But another is that HP required for a given speed to overcome aero drag goes up with the cube of velocity and wings and such cause aero drag. However, hp to overcome drag from weight and rolling resistance associated is either directly proportional or as the square of speed and is relatively small by comparison. So weight added costs less HP than aero devices. You go faster. I hear you, going fast carries risk, your choice what you do. I spent a lot of time designing my liner looking at all this stuff. I built it and drove it over 270, always stable, rough track, cross winds whatever. It has been over 300 with different power (and owner/driver).

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by Turborick » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:07 pm

Hey I just saw this, yeah we did pretty good at speed week this year. Just a couple miles short of our goal but it’s OK the car shows great stability and efficiency. The record was 334 miles an hour and we pushed it up to 384 miles an hour with an exit speed of 398 miles an hour. The engine was a destruct small block Chevy with 255 in.³ and turbo charged with only 16 pounds of boost on these runs. We had a lifter stick and that put an end two our fun.
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Nebulous Theorem III.V
http://www.bonnevillestreamliner.com

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by John Wallace » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:35 pm

Congrats!

Awesome speeds.

:)
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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by pcnsd » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:11 pm

That time slip is quite humbling to ponder. Congratulations to all evolved.
- Paul

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by Cubic_Cleveland » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:07 am

Excellent work :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by Keith Morganstein » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:20 pm

Turborick wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:07 pm
Hey I just saw this, yeah we did pretty good at speed week this year. Just a couple miles short of our goal but it’s OK the car shows great stability and efficiency. The record was 334 miles an hour and we pushed it up to 384 miles an hour with an exit speed of 398 miles an hour.The engine was a destruct small block Chevy with 255 in.³ and turbo charged with only 16 pounds of boost on these runs. We had a lifter stick and that put an end two our fun.
That seems like a very good effort.

So, is the 260” LS based engine for next year? Or is that another car you have?
Automotive Machining, cylinder head rebuilding, engine building. Can't seem to quit #-o

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Re: Nebulous Theorem 3, Land Speed Racing! WJ, RY, GH

Post by Turborick » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:44 am

Thanks guys it was a great team effort now we have to get it together again for our next event at the world finals on Oct 2nd thru the 5th. Gasoline is sure hard on parts I will start another post on that
Rick Yacoucci

Nebulous Theorem III.V
http://www.bonnevillestreamliner.com

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