Will this make 500 hp ?

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Charliesauto
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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by Charliesauto » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:07 pm

Jim2527 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:49 pm
RevTheory wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:17 am
What can your average home builder who doesn't have access to a Serdi or Sioux do to correct shoddy seat work?
Nothing. But with $100 worth of tools (in addition to normal home mechanic tools) I can....

1. dis-assemble heads
2. lap valves and check for proper concentricity/seating
3. check guides
4. hone guides if needed
5. check installed spring height
6. remove casting flashing
7. check torque of rocker studs
8. probably a few other things I'm missing
I would be very interested in seeing what you are checking and honing guides with?

I have north of 2K just in the equipment to achieve those two task.

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by Jim2527 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:45 pm

Charliesauto wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:07 pm

I would be very interested in seeing what you are checking and honing guides with?

I have north of 2K just in the equipment to achieve those two task.
Keep in mind that I'm just regular guy with an old car. Nothing I can do at home is to machine shop/professional standards. My comments were strictly as to 'what can a guy in his garage check on ootb heads'.... That being said, if I buy a set of heads from wherever, this is I could do at home.

$15 digital micrometers
$15 hole gauge set
$10 gage pins .342 .343 .344
$35 digital micrometer
$20 dial gauge
$10 11/32' flex hone 120 grit
$8 lap tool

Measure installed height of springs. Dis-assemble heads. Measure valve stems. Measure guides with hole gauge set. Use gage pins as a 'go no go' test. If guides are tight use flex hone. Lap valves, check for evenness of lap marks. Bounce test valves.

As an example, I picked up some older 113 heads...obviously nothing fancy or impressive. I was able to check everything I listed and made a determination the heads were good to go using the tools listed. (guides are within spec so I didn't hone them).

You all are pros and I'd never dis-agree with you. I've learned a tremendous amount just 'lurking' and will continue to learn.

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by groberts101 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:05 pm

With 1.625" primary shelf headers my guess is around 470

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by rfoll » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:23 pm

groberts101 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:05 pm
With 1.625" primary shelf headers my guess is around 470
Those primary tubes would be small on a 383.
So much to do, so little time...

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by prairiehotrodder » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:42 pm

Got it running yesterday. Runs strong and took it for a test drive. Has an oil leak i'm gonna have to fix and will need to put a better radiator in the car. It still has the original and it wants to run hot. Maybe i'll suggest a victor jr. and a 850 double pumper for next summer but i honestly think he is gonna be happy with the engine as it is. It destroys the BFG 295/50's. As i mentioned before, it will likely never go down the track. The customer is a farmer who pulled this car out of the shed after sitting for many years. Painted it and wants to have fun.
Brian
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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:20 pm

The distributor curve you use has a lot to do with keeping it cool
on the street. recommend either of these 2 setups
1. a 10 deg mech advance curve 26-36 deg mech timing
+ a 10-12deg vacuum advance curve (use ported on the carb)

or
2. a locked out mechanical advance curve
34-36deg timing setting
+ a 10-12deg vac advance curve ( use ported adv on the carb)

Yup the rad and fan and shroud is very important.
So is the OEM chin spoiler under the rad support.
And the rubber air flow baffles around the radiator to ensure the air goes thru the rad at speed. Yes this car could easily use a 850 holley or a 750HP style holley (some 820 cfm). Wether the Vic JR is better on this car than the RPM is a toss up. I'd be upgrading the cam way first.

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:28 pm

Here is a good GM motor cooling trick modification I found works great on my 406 SBC. Move the heater hose that is near the thermostat on the intake to the extra rear ports at the back of the intake by the distributor.
I use and recomend using the drivers side rear water port.
This really makes the thermostat work a LOT BETTER and stops thermostat surging and it will run cooler overall.
If you don't use a heater add this water loop anyway.
It works and especially helps the 400 SBC.
If your intake manifold is missing these rear water ports you can drill and tap a hole for it.

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by Ed Wright » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:42 pm

PRH wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:45 pm
I’ve never seen those heads up close and personal, so those are a question mark for me.

I’m sure it would make 500hp as is on someone’s dyno, but I think it would come up a little short here.

Victor Jr, 750DP, 1-7/8” headers should do it........ and long as the lifters allow it to rev high enough.
Why would you not use 2" headers on a 406"?
My 410" sprint car engine picked up everywhere above 5000 RPM, over 1 7/8".
http://www.fastchip.com/
SS/JA 4156

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by Walter R. Malik » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:51 pm

Ed Wright wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:42 pm
PRH wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:45 pm
I’ve never seen those heads up close and personal, so those are a question mark for me.

I’m sure it would make 500hp as is on someone’s dyno, but I think it would come up a little short here.

Victor Jr, 750DP, 1-7/8” headers should do it........ and long as the lifters allow it to rev high enough.
Why would you not use 2" headers on a 406"?
My 410" sprint car engine picked up everywhere above 5000 RPM, over 1 7/8".
Maybe because he already has the headers from a different engine and new headers aren't free.
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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by CamKing » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:58 pm

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:42 pm
but i honestly think he is gonna be happy with the engine as it is. It destroys the BFG 295/50's. As i mentioned before, it will likely never go down the track. The customer is a farmer who pulled this car out of the shed after sitting for many years. Painted it and wants to have fun.
And that's all that matters.
The only time I see a customer upset about the cam I sold him, is when it makes the HP number that he demanded it had to make, but now it won't cruise down the road in overdrive smoothly at 1,400rpm.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by prairiehotrodder » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:01 pm

Just a note to share on this build that may help someone. There are a few different stock SBC tin timing covers. Only the ones with 3 spokes stamped into them work well for a roller cam thrust bearing. I had one that i used and thought all was ok. I've had an annoying oil leak since day one. I thought it was the pan gasket front seal. Not so. Was also using a fel pro high performance timing cover gasket, bad idea. The stock replacement gasket is thicker and has more crush-ability to it. Oil is actually leaking out the front of the timing cover right where the dowel pin comes through on the passenger side. Weirdest thing i've ever seen. Very annoying. My timing cover must be warped or something. I've built lots of sbc's with this type of timing cover and never had a problem. I' m likely going to have to replace this timing cover. Only stock parts on the whole build were the block and the timing cover, and the cover fails !!
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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:27 pm

On the street the hot and sticky BFG drag radials are not bad. The normal BFG Radial Tires are much like driving on grease, straight line traction wise. Can end up in the ditch easily with those and a 406 SBC.

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by Ed Wright » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:41 am

rfoll wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:23 pm
groberts101 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:05 pm
With 1.625" primary shelf headers my guess is around 470
Those primary tubes would be small on a 383.
Those primaries would be small on a 500 hp 350".
http://www.fastchip.com/
SS/JA 4156

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by RevTheory » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:23 am

I don't know, Team Creason did 570 ish hp on 1.625 primary x 2.5 inch collector box headers.

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Re: Will this make 500 hp ?

Post by prairiehotrodder » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:15 am

Car is gone, bill is paid. I suggested better headers, intake and carb for next season. The headers he has don't provide much room for the spark plug boots and they don't match up to the exhaust port that great. Thanks for everyones suggestions and guesstimates on the horsepower.
Brian
The Word of God is quick and powerfull
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com

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