1960's engine wars

[Steve.k]

I sit next to those Harley guys and just marvel at how much the engine shakes at idle. Having a mechanical career has made me suspicious of anything that vibrates, it's usually an indication there is something wrong. I own a Kawasaki KLR and a Honda 1200 Gold Wing, and both engines are as smooth as silk all the way to 9000 rpm. I guess I'm not cool enough to be a Harley rider.

It used to be around here if you could get by a Kawasaki 900 you had a fast car. Took a lot of wrenching to get by those. My cousin ran the old 428 Pontiac those things were healthy. Especially when he stuffed it in 240z datsun.

[rfoll]

My 65 GTO with headers and a Crane cam ran mid 14s, Pontiac 2 speed with a 3.08 gear. My 4200 lb 79 Impala with a 3.42 gear, stock 400 short block, headers, XE 268 cam, and Vortec heads ran 13.20. Cylinder heads have come a long way. There is a reason the Hemi/SOHC/Tunnel port/ high riser Super Duty stuff was around.

[rfoll]

I sit next to those Harley guys and just marvel at how much the engine shakes at idle. Having a mechanical career has made me suspicious of anything that vibrates, it's usually an indication there is something wrong. I own a Kawasaki KLR and a Honda 1200 Gold Wing, and both engines are as smooth as silk all the way to 9000 rpm. I guess I'm not cool enough to be a Harley rider.

It used to be around here if you could get by a Kawasaki 900 you had a fast car. Took a lot of wrenching to get by those. My cousin ran the old 428 Pontiac those things were healthy. Especially when he stuffed it in 240z datsun.

I saw a 900 Kawasaki engine in a stretched frame go cart at the the track back in the day.

[DrillDawg]

Built a 650 twin "twingle" back in the early 70's, welded the rocker arms together on a 650 tri. twin, when I could get it started, which wasn't often, the pushrods would not last long, talk about a paint shaker.

How do you weld the rocker arms together, there's a shaft support between them...

Did you figure it out? I bet you went out and looked at a rocker box right away. Modern high strength pushrods and electronic ignition would make it start and last longer, some that would try to start it would not get it kicked through and it would kick them back, won a few dollars betting someone they couldn't start a little old 650, lol.

[Truckedup]

Built a 650 twin "twingle" back in the early 70's, welded the rocker arms together on a 650 tri. twin, when I could get it started, which wasn't often, the pushrods would not last long, talk about a paint shaker.

How do you weld the rocker arms together, there's a shaft support between them...

Did you figure it out? I bet you went out and looked at a rocker box right away. Modern high strength pushrods and electronic ignition would make it start and last longer, some that would try to start it would not get it kicked through and it would kick them back, won a few dollars betting someone they couldn't start a little old 650, lol.

No need to look, I still build Triumph race engines and all that crap is etched into my mind....LOL

[DrillDawg]

How do you weld the rocker arms together, there's a shaft support between them...

Did you figure it out? I bet you went out and looked at a rocker box right away. Modern high strength pushrods and electronic ignition would make it start and last longer, some that would try to start it would not get it kicked through and it would kick them back, won a few dollars betting someone they couldn't start a little old 650, lol.

No need to look, I still build Triumph race engines and all that crap is etched into my mind....LOL

OH.....so why did you have to ask.....LOL.

[Truckedup]

Did you figure it out? I bet you went out and looked at a rocker box right away. Modern high strength pushrods and electronic ignition would make it start and last longer, some that would try to start it would not get it kicked through and it would kick them back, won a few dollars betting someone they couldn't start a little old 650, lol.

No need to look, I still build Triumph race engines and all that crap is etched into my mind....LOL

OH.....so why did you have to ask.....LOL.

Because I see no way to weld the rocker arms together unless the center support is removed and the 1/2 inch gap bridged by extending the rockers somehow.. I would have just changed the cam timing, easy to do with the two cams driven by gears...

[DrillDawg]

No need to look, I still build Triumph race engines and all that crap is etched into my mind....LOL

OH.....so why did you have to ask.....LOL.

Because I see no way to weld the rocker arms together unless the center support is removed and the 1/2 inch gap bridged by extending the rockers somehow.. I would have just changed the cam timing, easy to do with the two cams driven by gears...

The rocker box is intact with center support in place and the rockers do indeed move as one on the intake side and as one on the exhaust side. So one lobe of the cam lifts one lifter, one pushrod and two rockers, that open two intake or two exhaust valves at once.

As far as the cams goes, the lobes are spaced so that there is no way you could open two intake or two exhaust at the same time no matter what you did with cam timing. Maybe cut the cams in two, line up the lobes and weld them back together, I'd rather weld the rockers as it had no merit other than entertainment.

[Truckedup]

yeah, I made a misjudgement on the cams.. You have a photo of this set up?

[DrillDawg]

LOL, I didn't even have a camera back then. Just lay them on the bench with the spindle thru them spaced right and weld them together on the pushrod end just above the balls and when it cools assemble in the rocker box.

[ptuomov]

Heck you wanna see engine wars now, just look in the showroom floor today! 850hp Dodge Demons, 750hp Corvette ZL1'S, new 750+up Ford Mustang, jeez it's the 60 's on steroids !!

My winter daily driver has a 4.0L cross plane V8 with two twin scroll turbos hot in the V. E63S wagon, 2017 model. It hits 627 lbf-ft by 2500 rpm from four liters. 600+ hp but who’s counting.

My summer daily driver, S65 Coupe has 738 lbf-ft at the band 2300-4300 rpm. Also 600+ hp.

Showroom stock, both.

The future is now.

[Truckedup]

Wow, cars that weigh as much as a truck with motorcycle acceleration...And cost more than my entire fleet of well used junk..

[ptuomov]

Wow, cars that weigh as much as a truck with motorcycle acceleration...And cost more than my entire fleet of well used junk..

[Truckedup]

...I live in a rural area with all two lane curvy roads with blind turns and less than smooth road surfaces. A high HP heavy car is not a useful tool in this environment..If I lived out west , much more useful...

[ptuomov]

...I live in a rural area with all two lane curvy roads with blind turns and less than smooth road surfaces. A high HP heavy car is not a useful tool in this environment..If I lived out west , much more useful...

The E63S Wagon gets driven a lot miles with snow tires on in Vermont. It's stupidly fast and highly controllable on snow and ice. It's really the ideal (on road) winter car for the Northeast.

The S65 Coupe, not so much. Wouldn't take that out to the mountains.