Can Am racing

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

pdq67
Guru
Guru
Posts: 9841
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:05 pm
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by pdq67 »

mekilljoydammit wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:29 pm The later ones were linerless, in the same process they tried for the Vega later.
I want to say the 510 inch engines here.

pdq67
Steve.k
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by Steve.k »

Didn't Dyno Don run can am boss 494?https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-fo ... ics/499804 Info on can am ford 494.
Last edited by Steve.k on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mekilljoydammit
Member
Member
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:40 pm
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by mekilljoydammit »

pdq67 wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:25 pm
mekilljoydammit wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:29 pm The later ones were linerless, in the same process they tried for the Vega later.
I want to say the 510 inch engines here.

pdq67
Reading internet hearsay, the linerless blocks were to get the bore up to 4.5". I'm not an expert though.
Turbo231
Member
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Can Am racing

Post by Turbo231 »

Is there anyone on this site who is actively involved in the vintage Can Am cars? I have been fascinated by this form of racing and would love to get involved if possible. I am near retirement and would be a great volunteer. :)
GerryP
Member
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:26 am
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by GerryP »

Turbo231 wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:05 pm Is there anyone on this site who is actively involved in the vintage Can Am cars? I have been fascinated by this form of racing and would love to get involved if possible. I am near retirement and would be a great volunteer. :)
You might try reaching out to the organization: https://svra.com/

I had the real pleasure of attending the Indy race last month. Best weekend of the year. You meet a lot of real interesting people and see some really amazing cars. These folks are my heroes.
hoffman900
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:42 pm
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by hoffman900 »

GerryP wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:19 pm
Turbo231 wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:05 pm Is there anyone on this site who is actively involved in the vintage Can Am cars? I have been fascinated by this form of racing and would love to get involved if possible. I am near retirement and would be a great volunteer. :)
You might try reaching out to the organization: https://svra.com/

I had the real pleasure of attending the Indy race last month. Best weekend of the year. You meet a lot of real interesting people and see some really amazing cars. These folks are my heroes.
Most of the Can-Am cars are raced by rich "arrive and drive" customers, and the cars are typically in the care of professional shops. Look to go to one (or all of these events) and you'll see what you're looking for.

The Mitty @ Road Atlanta in April
KIC (or whatever it's called) @ Road America in July
Rolex Monterey Historics @ Laguna Seca in August
SVRA @ Watkins Glen in September
SVRA @ Indy in June.

Those five events bring out the $$$$ cars. Just start chatting everyone up and maybe you can work something out! The Mitty would be your best bet for you based on location. http://hsrrace.com/classic-motorsports-mitty/
-Bob
pamotorman
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2802
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:55 pm
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by pamotorman »

MadBill wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:46 pm
pamotorman wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:01 pm
j-c-c wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:20 pm" I implemented it, but that idea came from a GM engineer named Bill Howell. I won't take credit for that."...
bill was my contact with GM back in the day. he worked for vince piggens in product promotion dept or better know as the race shop.
As you may know, he's still around and still into performance: https://howellefi.com/
bill was making harnesses in his basement before he retired from GM. he tried to get me to build them for fords as he was getting requests but I was still working and did not need any more projects. he used to send me down to the ford pits at the trans am races to see what was going on. I reported they were having oil pan failures because the pans were not holding in the broken pieces. :D
User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 15024
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Can Am racing

Post by MadBill »

pamotorman wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:01 pm he used to send me down to the ford pits at the trans am races to see what was going on. I reported they were having oil pan failures because the pans were not holding in the broken pieces. :D
:lol: Many years back I remember a British F1 team car retiring reportedly due to 'electrical failure'. Turned out the coil feed wire was cut by a con rod... #-o
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
fdicrasto
Expert
Expert
Posts: 780
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:44 pm
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by fdicrasto »

Just a couple of old tidbits about the 430" can am bbc. Unlike the iron sleeved ZL 1 block, the can am piece was 4.44" bore all aluminum. Needed specially coated pistons and rings. Short stroke crank also. All chevy stuff. The team I worked with went from Trans am to Can Am with 2 older McLaren cars. That was back in '71-'73. Lucas timed fuel injection was fuel system of choice for them. Cool stuff.
V Remian
Member
Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:34 am
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: Can Am racing

Post by V Remian »

Re:Madbills post.
Honda has never officially lost an engine that was anything but an "electrical problem! Disregard the smoke and flames!
kirkwoodken
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:35 pm
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by kirkwoodken »

Some CanAm info:
http://www.thechaparralfiles.com/chapar ... ations.php

Tom Dutton, John Surtees, and Peter Revson were some of the Chaparral drivers.
My opinion was the Chaparral cars were more of a learning experience for GM engineers
than good handling successful race cars.

Some of the engine preps for the Aluminum blocks were contained in the "Chevy Green Sheets" series
put out by the Chevy racing division. Blocks were hyper-eutectic type alloy honed with a silicon hone
which gave the bores a solid silicon wear surface. The aluminum piston skirts were Iron plated, giving similar
friction surfaces of standard bores, but on opposite parts. Worked well if done correctly, at least in theory.
I am not an expert on CanAm cars but have discussed them with Tom Dutton, a family member.
I haven't seen him post on SpeedTalk.

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/TomP0 ... epage.html
Last edited by kirkwoodken on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is too short to not run a solid roller cam."
"Anything is possible, if you don't know what you're talking about."
I am NOT an Expert, and DEFINITELY NOT a GURU.
Kirkwoodken
User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 15024
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Can Am racing

Post by MadBill »

fdicrasto wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:39 pm Just a couple of old tidbits about the 430" Can Am bbc. Unlike the iron sleeved ZL 1 block, the can am piece was 4.44" bore all aluminum. Needed specially coated pistons and rings. Short stroke crank also. All chevy stuff. The team I worked with went from Trans am to Can Am with 2 older McLaren cars. That was back in '71-'73. Lucas timed fuel injection was fuel system of choice for them. Cool stuff.
A minor clarification: The original design 4.440" bore aluminum Can Am engines were sleeved and used conventional pistons* Prototype versions were used as early as 1967 in Jim Hall's Chaparrals (direct from Chev R&D) . Although externally similar in appearance, it varied in many design details from the 4.250" bore ZL1 aluminum production big blocks and was never assigned an alpha-numeric engine designation. They were sold only as bare blocks or parts kit and many were either built without or migrated from the special 3.47" crank which gave 430" to the 3.76"/427" or the 4.0"/454 crank, the latter giving 495.5 c.i. (*I know, I've had one in my garage for 40+ years...)

The later linerless 390 high silicon alloy Reynolds blocks (circa `1971) started out at the same bore, but could be machined to 4.50" and beyond.
Last edited by MadBill on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 15024
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Can Am racing

Post by MadBill »

V Remian wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:24 pm Re:Madbills post.
Honda has never officially lost an engine that was anything but an "electrical problem! Disregard the smoke and flames!
Conversely, an EE will tell you that that at its core, every electrical failure is actually a mechanical one... #-o
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
In-Tech
Vendor
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:35 am
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Can Am racing

Post by In-Tech »

MadBill wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:17 pm
V Remian wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:24 pm Re:Madbills post.
Honda has never officially lost an engine that was anything but an "electrical problem! Disregard the smoke and flames!
Conversely, an EE will tell you that that at its core, every electrical failure is actually a mechanical one... #-o
"But the spec sheet said..." :lol:
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
-Carl
fdicrasto
Expert
Expert
Posts: 780
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:44 pm
Location:

Re: Can Am racing

Post by fdicrasto »

MadBill wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:15 pm
fdicrasto wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:39 pm Just a couple of old tidbits about the 430" Can Am bbc. Unlike the iron sleeved ZL 1 block, the can am piece was 4.44" bore all aluminum. Needed specially coated pistons and rings. Short stroke crank also. All chevy stuff. The team I worked with went from Trans am to Can Am with 2 older McLaren cars. That was back in '71-'73. Lucas timed fuel injection was fuel system of choice for them. Cool stuff.
A minor clarification: The original design 4.440" bore aluminum Can Am engines were sleeved and used conventional pistons* Prototype versions were used as early as 1967 in Jim Hall's Chaparrals (direct from Chev R&D) . Although externally similar in appearance, it varied in many design details from the 4.250" bore ZL1 aluminum production big blocks and was never assigned an alpha-numeric engine designation. They were sold only as bare blocks or parts kit and many were either built without or migrated from the special 3.47" crank which gave 430" to the 3.76"/427" or the 4.0"/454 crank, the latter giving 495.5 c.i. (*I know, I've had one in my garage for 40+ years...)

The later linerless 390 high silicon alloy Reynolds blocks (circa `1971) started out at the same bore, but could be machined to 4.50" and beyond.
The stuff we had was the later sleeveless block. Did not know they had a 4.440" sleeved block before that. Thanks for the correction.
Post Reply