472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

A_VAS
Pro
Pro
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by A_VAS »

I currently have a 514 cu.in in my car

Bulldog aluminum heads w/ a decent amount of work
MTS single plane intake (revised of the orig. Bulldog casting design)
stud mount crower enduro rockers, 1.7 SB Ford type
Guide plates w/ 3/8 pushrod. I believe 7/16 would fit these heads but I didn't try it.
2.19 / 1.84 valves
Bullet hyd roller, 237/245 at .050 .625 valve lift
Bullet tie bar lifters, which appear to be Morel units
stock 500 crank
7.100 H beam rod
Probe pistons 4.360 bore, forged flat top w/ reliefs. Ancient ring pack, heavy, .990 pins

The heads and intake you can get from MTS or Cadillac Performance Parts (New Mexico)
Typically neither fit the best, and are aluminum so easy to grind. Great for a learning experience! LOL
I purchased the intake from MTS and it took a lot of material removal just for acceptable port match
headers best bet is to build your own, another good learning exp.

I have this engine in a Cadillac car...so I went this route. I built it cause I like some of the obscure stuff..
But if I were being honest, I think it was more fun when it was a warmed up stock 472, with a flat tappet cam swap, edelbrock dual plane, 200hp of nitrous and not much else. I bolted it together with no porting, and just beat the bejeezus out of it. Broke transmissions and rearends, but never hurt it.
too lazy to make power w/o boost
PackardV8
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7619
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:03 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by PackardV8 »

Agree, they make great, cheap torque, but very expensive horsepower.

FWIW, a Studebaker friend found what appears to be a 472" in an Avanti he bought recently. He's disassembling it at present and finding some very strange things. There's a 24-volt cranking system and two alternators; first guess, someone did a head swap and ended up with very high compression. Then, it appears to have a solid lifter cam, as the roller rockers have clearance. Who'd try to turn one of those enough RPM to need solids? To keep it under the stock hood, it had to retain the OEM low-profile Quadrajet intake; again, why more cam with an induction system which can't breathe?
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
liqu
Member
Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:22 pm
Location:

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by liqu »

The pictures I posted the other day is a engine in a 1956 Ford F100 my day built, it has 500CID Cad, home ported heads Howards mech roller, Arias pistons (dished) Roller Rockers, homemade manifold and blower drive, Vertex Mag with external coil.

Cliff
User avatar
af2
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7014
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Grass Valley, CA :Northern Foothills

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by af2 »

Don't forget the 460 Ford intake ......
GURU is only a name.
Adam
User avatar
af2
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7014
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Grass Valley, CA :Northern Foothills

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by af2 »

PackardV8 wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:13 pm Agree, they make great, cheap torque, but very expensive horsepower.

FWIW, a Studebaker friend found what appears to be a 472" in an Avanti he bought recently. He's disassembling it at present and finding some very strange things. There's a 24-volt cranking system and two alternators; first guess, someone did a head swap and ended up with very high compression. Then, it appears to have a solid lifter cam, as the roller rockers have clearance. Who'd try to turn one of those enough RPM to need solids? To keep it under the stock hood, it had to retain the OEM low-profile Quadrajet intake; again, why more cam with an induction system which can't breathe?
Just because a solid is there don't mean nothing. Rpm was not the reason. If my dad was still here his 500 would be done and run good!
GURU is only a name.
Adam
Kbails
Member
Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:53 pm
Location:

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by Kbails »

had a 72 472/t400 in a 80 malibu was told the engine was completely stock. it was one of most fun cars i had growing up ,wish i never sold it. it wasn't really fast by todays standards (i was around 22 at the time and thought i had the fastest car on the street) but it made a lot of power off idle and felt fast with 342 gears ,it would only really rev to about 52-5500 but was fun. if its clean id put it back together and have fun i wouldn't go crazy. but if its a father son project and you have some time a decent rebuild/a baisic "bowl blend/clean-up" with a decent cam would be awesome in my opinion
Long Island, NY
liqu
Member
Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:22 pm
Location:

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by liqu »

liqu wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:03 pm The pictures I posted the other day is a engine in a 1956 Ford F100 my dad built, it has 500CID Cad, home ported heads Howards mech roller, Arias pistons (dished) Roller Rockers, homemade manifold and blower drive, Vertex Mag with external coil.

Cliff
PackardV8
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7619
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:03 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by PackardV8 »

Just because a solid is there don't mean nothing. Rpm was not the reason.
Trying to learn here. What is the reason for spending a couple of thousand dollars for solid lifters, custom pushrods, adjustable rockers in an engine which turns 5500 RPM? Within that RPM envelope, what will a solid do that a hydraulic won't?
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
SchmidtMotorWorks
Vendor
Posts: 11003
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:30 am
Location: CA

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks »

My son wants to make a casting for it. He has helped with making some foundry patterns already, so he knows what is involved.

He has some CAD skills, so I am thinking about guiding him through making a head for it. Maybe something simple in the style of a 392 Hemi head with flatter valve angles.
It is amazing how fast they learn at this age.
Helping to Deliver the Promise of Flying Cars
Truckedup
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2728
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:41 pm
Location: Finger Lakes

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by Truckedup »

I suppose you run a Caddy engine it's just to try something that isn't a BBC...But when you stray from Chevy or even Ford and Mopar...it gets expensive to make power.
Around here in in the Great Lakes are many high power offshore type boats...Almost all have BBC's ,supercharging is popular..I asked some boat engine guys why the Chevy's...One reason is what most boats were set up for..And ,this is arguable, besides the BBC and some BBF's the other big V-8's are less reliable when run at high power levels for extended periods of time..
Motorcycle land speed racing... wearing animal hides and clinging to vibrating oily machines propelled by fire
gnicholson
Pro
Pro
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: kansas city mo

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by gnicholson »

i have a brand new engine swap rear sump pan oil pump and mount kit from cad company if anyones interested. pan looks really nice
Racer18
Pro
Pro
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by Racer18 »

I have a complete 1970 500 cad engine for sale. It's been torn down, cleaned, crack checked, and bored .030, but cylinders have not been honed. Make me an offer!
A_VAS
Pro
Pro
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by A_VAS »

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:13 am My son wants to make a casting for it. He has helped with making some foundry patterns already, so he knows what is involved.

He has some CAD skills, so I am thinking about guiding him through making a head for it. Maybe something simple in the style of a 392 Hemi head with flatter valve angles.
It is amazing how fast they learn at this age.
I'd get a peek at a set of the 'high port' heads that Cadillac Perf Parts has available. (seem to be marketed as "boogie man" heads now) Those started as a project by Jerry Potter's company in Chattanooga....they also have an intake for it. would be good for idea generation at least. There's a few rare guys around the country with them, if you find a set local I bet you could get a hands on look.
local guy here with a mini Rod tractor puller has a setup. 499 cu.in using 472 crank and .100 overbore, to fit his 500cu.in rule class
too lazy to make power w/o boost
Krooser
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:14 pm
Location: Tropical Wisconsin

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by Krooser »

I remember seeing a few 500's replacing 454's in Chevy dually pickups... supposed to do 10 mpg vs. the 454's 5-6...

I started building a Coupe de ville with a 500 for the local tracks Whales street stock deal in '83... had to quit when I got into race promoting. The guy I sold it to won a bunch of races with it. After I stripped the seats, doors, etc. I must have had a 1,000 pound pile of scrap in my driveway.
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
DrillDawg
Expert
Expert
Posts: 980
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:03 am
Location:

Re: 472 & 500 Cadillac Engine Tales

Post by DrillDawg »

Think you can offset grind the 500 crank to BBC size and with a little over bore and the right rod, you too can have 540 tire fryer.
BORN RIGHT THE FIRST TIME
Post Reply