Engine simulation programs ??

[Stan Weiss]

One problem with most dyno testing is the method used. For how long or where on the track or at what engine RPM is the engine actually seeing lets say a 600 RPM / Sec acceleration rate?

Stan

[hoffman900]

One problem with most dyno testing is the method used. For how long or where on the track or at what engine RPM is the engine actually seeing lets say a 600 RPM / Sec acceleration rate?

Stan

So it’s a simulation? Huh.

[Frankshaft]

I figured the keyboard clowns would argue. Lol. If Randy331 is a knuckle dragger, I am too. But at least we actually build stuff, and are out running the stuff. Not sitting at a keyboard​ playing make believe. So, guys who actually build stuff, Dyno stuff, and run the stuff are knuckle draggers, then you guys who sit at your computer and play make believe, my term of endearment for you guys, is keyboard clowns. Fair enough?

[slo-svt]

Portinguy has proprietary engine simulation software made in Kansas. Between his software and his vast knowledge of cylinder head porting, he has helped one team make it as high as 17th place at engine masters! If he chimes in I'm sure he can get you pointed in the right direction.

[hoffman900]

I figured the keyboard clowns would argue. Lol. If Randy331 is a knuckle dragger, I am too. But at least we actually build stuff, and are out running the stuff. Not sitting at a keyboard​ playing make believe. So, guys who actually build stuff, Dyno stuff, and run the stuff are knuckle draggers, then you guys who sit at your computer and play make believe, my term of endearment for you guys, is keyboard clowns. Fair enough?

Are NASCAR, F1, MotoGP, and just about every professional that the OEMs are the involved in, FSAE competitors, etc keyboard clowns? They actually build stuff too. Just saying.

Here is the problem, my post earlier was very tongue in cheek, it basically turned some of the posters here into an exaggerated cartoon. I still can’t get over the post where the person was going to “crush their cars on their death bed rather than leave for their grandkids because they hate the future” (paraphrasing). That was a real post here. Look up all the old posts on DI engines and how the cars were basically going to explode Hollywood style in accidents. Those posts happened too. The humor may have been lost in text. But, why would anyone come into a simulation thread, poo poo it, when what they claim to measure is also a simulation that requires calibration?

Isn’t a flowbench, that needs to be calibrated, and all rules of thumb developed to deal with it’s relatively low depression and steady state just a simulation of the real thing? A flowbench is like trying to watch a movie through screen stills.

Isn’t a dyno with its correction factors, calibrations, and depending, a fixed acceleration rate a simulation?

So someone makes a sassy comment, someone else makes a sassy comment in turn, now others will come in pounding on their chest claiming “if he’s one then I am too” “yeah” “yeah what he said”, and play the first world “I’m being persecuted card”, and no one gets anywhere.

I know some of you guys are buddies outside the forum, so I try to keep that in mind when there is a pile on.

[user-30257]

One problem with most dyno testing is the method used. For how long or where on the track or at what engine RPM is the engine actually seeing lets say a 600 RPM / Sec acceleration rate?

Stan

Have you ever used a dyno? Operated one? Been to a racetrack? Honest questions

[Stan Weiss]

A variable acceleration rate (fix load) dyno I think is a much more real world test. Some even use computer control load to simulate different gear ratios or track up hill or down hill loads.

Stan

[Turbo231]

Wow. I had no idea my simple question would go so quickly off track. I was just asking for a recommendation on a simulation program. I can go to Facebook for this kind of banter. Maybe I'll open up another rabbit hole and ask which dyno is better

[Racing68]

For the love of god don't ask about engine oil.

[Turbo231]

For the love of god don't ask about engine oil.

Is there anything better than Mobil 1?

[randy331]

But, why would anyone come into a simulation thread, poo poo it, when what they claim to measure is also a simulation that requires calibration?

An actual dyno needing calibrated doesn't in any way mean the results have the same value as a simulation. A dyno is much closer to the real world racing than any sims named on this thread. There is very real world connection between power on a dyno and et at a track or how well a truck pulls. Not so much with the sims on this thread.

To me, people put too much faith in 1d sims. Like I got ideal collector as per PM and assume it is the best without testing.
I've seen collectors add down low and never hurt up top even going to 2' long, but I've seen collectors rock the TQ down around peak tq when the sim said it'd help above. So I guess me being skeptical of sim results makes me a well "longer than average arm length guy" but my knuckles don't quite drag the ground.

To me, a sim is a tool to look for possible improvements on an existing engine, But it needs tested.

Randy

[V Remian]

As a card carrying member of the low I.Q. club, I bought Eng Mod 4T because I was considering buying TFX pressure measurement equipment but was worried that I wouldn't be able to analyze pressure plots. Well, After 2 years worth of sims, my fears were validated. Was it still a grate investment?
Absolutely in my case because it hangs meat on the bones of Prof. Blair's book. The sims bring to life things like delivery ratio and cylinder pressure and left and right intake and exhaust waves. When a dullard like me re-reads Blair after doing the simulations I get a better understanding of what Blair was saying.

[user-30257]

A variable acceleration rate (fix load) dyno I think is a much more real world test. Some even use computer control load to simulate different gear ratios or track up hill or down hill loads.

Stan

Would you answer me please..

[digger]

Land and sea
Stuska
super flow

Randy

I’m surprised it took the knuckledraggers this long to show up, but now that this has left the Advanced Section, I predict talks will quickly go down hill. “I’m a real man and I don’t need no stinkin computer to build my ChevyFordinator 383 bracket engine. Pressure waves? That sounds like fakenews elitist liberal science talk. I just hit the peda and it goes “rawwwrrr””.

... Or something like that. Write a sass response and you’ll get one in return.

I have some sim programs, and access to others, and when the sim results don't match the actual dyno results, I believe the dyno.
And yes I've seen them not match real results.
Maybe that makes me a knuckledragger.


Let me ask you a question, I'd like a little more power in my pulling truck engine, would you run it on a sim and make the changes it shows to be better, and just go truck pulling again assuming it's making more power, or would you pull the engine and take it to an actual dyno and try some things on it ? Keep in mind in truck pulling there's no way to validate 10-20 HP difference by the way the truck pulls. Too many variables.

Knuckledraggers pulling truck team !

Randy

the answer is quite simple, id use the sim to work out what parts to test as this will cut down on dyno time/cost and provide some validation to the simulation at the same time. then you go and test those parts. rinse repeat

you arent going to build a 1D simulation model and arrive at the best solution without some kind of testing and validation. the idea of the simulation is to cut down on testing and actually see within the engine to improve your understanding of whats happening so you can test new ideas in a relatively efficient manner.

Generally OE use simulations (i dont mean 1D specific i mean generally) to speed up development time and reduce costs, its not to eliminate testing completely (though for simple things this does occur)

[Dave Koehler]

I sense a disturbance in the force concerning the direction threads have taken lately. Not pretty.